2 saws made the way I LIKE to make them

[george wilson]

After showing the crude White back saw,I re- shot these 2 saws I'd previously shown,and which are posted in the FAQ section here.

This post is for new guys like Marv,who haven't seen the earlier posts I made many of several months ago.

There appear to be scratches on the blade of the closed back saw. There aren't any. It must be from wax on the blade making reflections in my bad lighting.

The closed handle is a copy of a Groves back saw which I think has about the nicest handle I've ever seen.On my own,I prefer to not copy,but at times there is something so nice I have to possess even more by copying it. The blade is .020" thick like the original.

I enhanced my original by using curly maple rather than beech,and brass rather than an iron back. I did this on both saws,actually.

I also freehand ground the bevels on the backs. If you notice,everything tapers a bit towards the tip. The backs,and the bevels taper slightly. It is a little refinement that goes with the tapered blades,to add grace and balance to the design. These kind of refinements add a lot to a piece of work,and everyone should consider making use of these little features.

The open handle dovetail saw has some features from a saw I saw in the Duncan Phyfe tool chest. The little "turn back" on the handle near the back is a nice feature. It has a blade .015" thick,like the original Groves saw that inspired it.

There is a picture of another dovetail saw I put together especially for sawing fret grooves in guitar fingerboards. Nothing else special about this saw (except the especially tarnished brass back!) The blade is .020",with 20 teeth per inch,very small. Wax shows on this blade also. It has the rather simple style handle of the Dalaway saws we made,and the same less refined,round top brass back,with the upturned tip the original has.

[David Weaver]

The closed groves tote is the nicest I've seen. And strangely enough, I never heard of it until I saw your saws, george.

The top saw fills my head with all of the things I want to learn to do well on a saw tote.

i just missed out on a groves saw on ebay yesterday to someone who wanted it more than me, but there are other ones out there. They are all outside of the range of what I want to pay to get a tote to look at though.

[george wilson]

My Groves had a big curve in the blade,and I got it for $50.00. The dealer thought it was screwed,I suppose. I just clamped the front end of the blade in a smooth jawed vise,and tapped on the front of the back to jerk the blade straight.

That will work unless there is a sharp kink in the blade. Looks like it never happened.

Groves had a superb sense of design,all right.

[Patrick Tipton]

George, those are great looking saws. I admire your work.

The problem with this site and posts like this are that I end up wanting to spend all my time in my shop, making tools, furniture and learning stuff. I still have a day job - help!

Regards, Patrick

[seth lowden]

Wonderful looking saws. Are the name stamp on the spine and the owner's stamp one and the same? Where might one find a source for decent looking name stamps? I want to stamp my tools... Thanks!!

[george wilson]

I think my day job is providing educational material for you guys,now that I'm retired.

[Patrick Tipton]

I think my day job is providing educational material for you guys,now that I'm retired.

George, you should consider it charity to a worthy group

[Rick Markham]

I think my day job is providing educational material for you guys,now that I'm retired.

I for one seriously appreciate it George!!! I've learned a ton since you've been actively sharing bits and pieces of your knowledge. So don't quit your day job! Please

[george wilson]

Seth,I got our name stamps from Buckhorn Engraving Co. in Ohio You can talk to the guy who makes the stamps. Really knows his stuff. You can choose from many fonts of type he has. He might email fonts. I think I found fonts on the computer and specified which I wanted. My wife got some stamps from him not too long ago. I DO hope he is still in business.

At the time,I THINK,may be wrong,that my name stamp was $75.00. That was a good while ago. Probably more now. They made them from 01 steel. You can specify sharply Vee'd letters for wood,or stouter for metal. I recommend getting the metal ones. mine is,and you don't want to chip a letter and ruin your investment,and maybe your tool!

I make many of my own individual letter and number stamps. It is just not suitable to make an otherwise nice tool,and stamp it with plain,no serif Gothic stamps like you get today. It just ruins the tool. I will post a few number stamp sets. When I made an important piece,like a surveyor's compass,I copied the original numbers exactly.

I posted a picture of an 1809(?) Chamblee surveyors compass reproduction I was asked to make for David Brinkley. Made in Winchester,Va..

It was probably worth about $50,000.00 with the time that went into it. Actually more,if you count building maintenance.

You can search my old posts in the search function,and find it.

I also copied letters individually stamped on 18th.C. brass tobacco boxes I found in collections. They were good for general use.

the only thing I ever stamped with plain,Gothic stamps,were the tooth numbers on saws. 2 reasons: I didn't want to ruin a handmade stamp stamping dozens of hard saw blades @52 rockwell. It was also a modern mark to add to the saws not "becoming antiques" in several years of use. These were 1/16" numbers,and not too easy to see.


Rick,I am glad you enjoy the posts. So many see them,and say nothing. You make it worth the trouble. And,it is trouble. I hate photographing stuff,am not to good at it,have no proper lights,and I shake. Today I found the tripod,so did get some sharper pictures. Dark day,though. Bad light.

[Will Boulware]

George,

Just wanted to add my thanks to the multitude who have already posted. Your contributions are greatly appreciated, even though I don't comment on each thread you've started. Seriously, without people like you, the rest of us would have NO idea how a lot of things are even supposed to go together, much less how we can make them on our own! Please keep up the good work.

Oh, and the saws are gorgeous as well!

-Will

[Jonathan McCullough]

I have to concede that there are few saws I don't like, but these are especially nice, like seeing pristine saws right off the assembly line.

You've mentioned before that you consider a sharp transition between the curved parts of the handle and the flat parts to be the hallmark of superior work. Why is that the case (or is this a matter of taste), and how did you do it on these handles? Do you run the flat parts on some sandpaper after shaping the curves? Also, how long are the blades on these saws?

[george wilson]

I'd have to go measure them,Jonathan. No more than 12". The division between the curved and flat areas provides better sculpture. You can see the difference between light and shadow better. You can use the junction between curved and flat areas to create "thicks and thins" as in calligraphy,or fine script engraving.

It isn't considered good sculpture to just have amorphous,continuous surfaces that go around the sides and ignominiously disappear.

A few others may disagree,but the finest old saws were made this way,back when educated people(schooled or not) made much finer tools than those common today. Groves saws are examples of real design genius and impeccable taste.

You can also see the use of light and shadow on more delicate objects like flintlock locks on fine guns. The most popular types used sharp lines in the same way. There were also round face locks,but the former were much more common. The surgical knife I posted a few weeks ago was copied from an old one,and has the same type flats on its handles. Surgical tools were made to absolutely the highest standards attainable back then,both in function and in art.

The excuse that a fully rounded handle is more comfortable is a weak one. The Groves saws,and others are perfectly comfortable,and no one has ever gotten blisters from using properly sculpted handles like the old Groves,Disstons,and all the others.

[Jonathan McCullough]

The distinction is aesthetic rather than functional then, and the sharper transition is to create light/shadow visual interest, such as moulding? If that's the case, the rationale is pretty striking, especially with that curly maple. Have you seen the saw handles by the German guys on the "Old Ladies" website? The mitt part of the handle takes an entirely different aesthetic by being rounded off and I gotta admit that ignominy has its attractions too.

Do you have any tips on how to achieve that crisp effect?

[george wilson]

Sand the sides after you finish rounding things off. It is necessary to sand the sides do grind off the saw screws flush. I use a side stroke belt sander.

The German guys do nice work,but they do fall down a bit on getting things too rounded, Never the less,they do better work than most of what I've seen.

[Marv Werner]

Excellent replication, George. Those older totes were made with the sanded flat sides as you have done on your replication of the older saws. Looks authentic for sure.

Strictly for feel and comfort, I prefer the older style Disston totes that have the radiuses on the hand grip totally rounded off and blended with the sides.

The flat sides of the old period totes was probably done that way when sanding the screw heads flush. Just a quicker and easier way of doing it perhaps?

Very nice job, some of the best I've seen, except for my own of course.

Marv