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Thread: Finishing Schedule for Cherry

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Finishing Schedule for Cherry

    All,
    I've researched quite a few threads on finishing cherry and before I make any mistakes, I have a few remaining questions for a cherry bed I'll be finishing soon:

    1. Is BLO used as an initial coat to pop the grain, act as a colorant, or both? If it's used to pop the grain, then that would be the reverse of controlling blotchiness, correct?

    2. If Zinsser's Sealcoat is used to control blotchiness as an initial coat, can dye be added to it as a colorant? If so, would the dye cause blotchiness on cherry since the dye would absorb differently based on grain pattern?

    3. For a spit coat of shellac, do you recommend cutting the Sealcoat to a 1 lb. cut, instead of the 2 lb. cut from the can? If so, would it be accurate enough to use a 1:1 ratio of Sealcoat to DNA to achieve the 1 lb. cut since it's now a volume to volume comparison but with shellace already mixed in? Or, should I use the 2 lb. cut to better control the blotchiness?

    My initial plan was to use a spit coat Sealcoat, followed by several coats of GF's brown mahogany gel stain, and then use several coats of GF's satin Arm-R-Seal poly with a light sanding between coats with 320 grit. With the gel stain, I'm concerned about hiding the grain of the cherry but I'm looking for a medium brownish/slightly reddish color. I've thought about setting it out in the sun for several days to help expedite the darkening process to minimize the coats of gel stain.

    Any help would be appreciated!

    Thanks,
    Brett

  2. #2
    Great q's.


    1) You are correct. However, blotch tends to get 'ugly' with darker colors. So, the risk of BLO blotching in an unsightly way is low IMHO.

    2) Possibly; I don't like to add dye to shellac on the sealing coat. I haven't gotten it to work predictably. If you want to dye, dye the raw wood. If you want to add dye to shellac, I'd add it in between youryour topcoating schedule as a 'toner'. I think this is unnecessary and will complicate things.

    3) Yes. straight out of the can, or 50/50 will work. No need to get scientific about it.

    IMHO, cherry looks best when left to its own coloring devices. If it were me, I'd leave it in the sun for a few days, oil it with BLO, then topcoat it either with shellac or your arm-r-seal. This looks beautiful and is elegantly simple.

    If yr working with cherry a lot, a good investment might be some garnet shellac flakes. Then you can make yr own sealer coat, which will impart an ambery/brown/red cast to cherry without any of the grain masking that a gel stain might impart.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    I agree that cherry is best when left to age on it's own. I know of no other wood that ages faster, more dramatically, nor beautifully than cherry.

    Staining and using dye on cherry is like nails on a chaulkboard to me. DON'T DO IT!
    Scott

    Finishing is an 'Art & a Science'. Actually, it is a process. You must understand the properties and tendencies of the finish you are using. You must know the proper steps and techniques, then you must execute them properly.

  4. #4
    Mix up your own finish. Equal parts BLO, non-poly varnish, and mineral spirits. Works great on Cherry.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Clarksville, MD
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    Finishing cherry is the subject of countless threads, magazine articles, and blogs. While Cherry is beautiful in it's natural state, sounds like you have decided you want a darker color.

    Here's a link to a nice summary of finishing cherry:
    http://www.finishwiz.com/cherry.htm

    What most advise boils down to is using a wash coat to equalize absorption of oil or colorant. While some recipes can be complex, start with a simple finish schedule on test boards and see what you like.

    GF makes a good product, but an alternative to your colorant schedule is Trans Tint liquid dye. Try Reddish Brown and Medium Brown TransTint in equal combination into water; making small, 1 oz test batches. Using a water based dye will raise the grain, but will give you a high level of control and can be easily applied with a rag or paper towel. The dye can be mixed with DNA to eliminate grain raising, but it will flash off fast (which can be advantageous) and leaves little time to make adjustments. My advise is start with water, save DNA for when you've got some experience with it.

    Once you find the right color mix; apply wash coat, then dye, then top coat. Cherry can vary quite a bit, so use off cuts from your project as test boards.

  6. #6
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    A wash coat before staining with a pigment based stain is one way to control blotchiness. A wash coat before using dye is not the best solution. The wash coat will prevent the dye from doing it's job and could cause blotchiness.

    Dye colors the wood fiber; stains leave pigment in the grain and pores. I find that spraying dye (I use DNA) is the most foolproof way to get an even color. NO WIPING required.

    Whether you use water or DNA with the transtint dyes you can adjust the color by adding more dye or wiping with water or DNA to remove color.

    Practice, practice, practice, practice. I still say leave the cherry alone; if you want a dark "cherry" color use maple, birch, or poplar. Save the cherry for something else.
    Last edited by Scott Holmes; 10-24-2010 at 11:13 PM.
    Scott

    Finishing is an 'Art & a Science'. Actually, it is a process. You must understand the properties and tendencies of the finish you are using. You must know the proper steps and techniques, then you must execute them properly.

  7. #7
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    The wash coat will prevent the dye from doing it's job and could cause blotchiness.
    Scott - I agree with everything you said except the above.

    A wash coat won't prevent the dye from being absorbed, it will reduce the amount that the wood will absorb. (I don't see it causing blotching unless you let ponding dye dry without wiping off.)

    I would agree that for the most effective application of dye, it should be over bare wood. But you do run the risk of uneven absorption in certain woods.

    My advise to the OP was oriented towards someone with little experience applying dye on a blotch prone wood. With a wash coat, he can apply the dye in stages and work up to the tint he likes and if necessary give him a bit more time to back off if the tint goes on too dark.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Hi Brett,

    I found Cherry to be a definite finishing challenge. I try to buy cherry from the same tree, if possible, for a project. For air dried I like to sand to at least 200 before applying a 1/2 lb shellac. I sand to 300+, maybe 400 and will use another appl of shellac in between. When you apply the shellac you can tell how much blotching there is. After this I use trans tint or behlin dies of the colors i prefer. These are used to pop the grain so that it is almost pencil sharp, then to provide color for the rest. My wife lokes a "honey" tint to the wood. Final finishing is up to you. Sometimes I leave the final with Watco and wax. Other times I coat with a poly.

    For kiln dried (there probably is no real reason for air vs kiln) I use Charles Niel's anti blotching formula. It does not provide the carity of the above method - it's close though - at least to me. But grain pops, etc.

    In order to determine what I (really my wife) liked, I did a lot of experimentation. There were boards from 3 diffent trees (a 900 board foot project) and it show (or still shows) to me. Cherry does age with exposure and can cover a lot of ground quickly, but there sre still differences.

    The moral is experiment - there are a lot of ideas here that work - as you have to be satisfied.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Frankfort KY
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    Charles Neil has a great recipe for natural cherry- he uses General Finishes for consistency and I have to say it looks great on a bookcase I'm currently working on (birch ply with poplar face frames/shelf banding- yes they both like to blotch).

    Use GF dye stains light brown (1 part), cinnamon (.25 part) and water (1 part) for a very natural cherry hue- without the wait. Charles' DVD "It's All About the Color" gives practical insights like this for many species of wood. I highly recommend all his offerings-you can Google his name or go to Woodcraft to find the DVDs.
    Mark


    "Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock."
    Will Rogers

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Collin County Texas
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    Good afternoon Brett. Not to disparage any of the other good recommendations you have already received,
    let me suggest that you taxi over to Amazon and pick up a copy of Jeff Jewitt's book Finishing. When you are done placing your order, check out Jeff's Homestead Finishing website.
    Best Regards, Ken

  11. #11
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    On that note from Ken, I would add:

    Bob Flexer's Understanding Wood Finishing (or something like that).
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Bob Flexner had an article in Popular Woodworking in Feb 09 called "Cherry blotches, so get over it". It was a good review by an expert about the challenges of working with cherry and your options for finishing it. If you don't have a copy perhaps your local library keeps old versions.

    Roger

  13. #13
    Use something simple.

    Put a little color tint in some Waterlox for the first coat, then give it a couple more plain coats to finish. Please note I wrote "tint" - don't try to color it dark like its 100 year old finished cherry. If you don't like Waterlox use any real varnish the same way.

    Alternately, tint up a bit of BLO and give it a good dousing then wipe dry. Let sit for a week or so and then apply your favorite top coat. But only if its something that will stick with BLO.

    But really, the first paragraph covers it. Cherry is easy if you will just let it be cherry. If you want it to look like something else then use something else.

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