shop heating question

[Byron Chastain]

I guess my main idea is to keep it warm all winter long. Then to run a line into the house for the furnace/ water heater.

I can see all sides of the argument and im still not sure the way i am going to go. I have to talked to a lot of people and it seems they are about 50-50 on the outside wood furnace. Most seem to get tired of going out twice a day and stoking the fire. However, they like the constant warmth from the floor.

I know others who hated it so much they got rid of them and went gas, electric, wood stove, forced air, or nothing.

I just dont know....

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Byron,

What are you going to do if you go away for a few days in the winter?

I had some friends who bought a home here in Idaho. Gorgeous home except the only heat was wood. Somebody had to stay home in the winter to feed the stove to prevent water lines from freezing. I was surprised that a bank would even loan them the money on the house.

I am not trying to talk you out of it but rather raise a question.

[Byron Chastain]

I know.... I keep thinking about that and I just dont know! I brought that up to one vendor. His reply was to run a 50-50 anti-freeze in it.... Ummmm 75-100 gallons worth???? Im not thinking so! lol

I keep going back to the Bryan forced air type. But then the thought of starting the fire and getting the building warm before i go out and work on something. That seems to be a pain also! Plus a cold floor!

So i guess what its gonna boil down to is picking between the two evils!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Sadly sometimes we have to make some tough decisions.

When I built my shop, the LOML gave me a very tight budget but....she could have retired and she is still working 5 years later to pay for it. She retires 1/1/2011. I wanted radiant floor heating so badly but.....the cost of running water to the shop would have put me over budget big time and.... I checked into do it without water in the shop. To meet code the heater would have had to have some special designed safety circuitry...again busted the budget.

So I built the shop.

2 years later the LOML for Christmas gave me a Lennox overhead 75,000 btu natural gas furnace. It works well. When I have a project going I set the thermostat for 65ºF. When I don't have a project going I set the thermostat for 58ºF. If I am getting ready to finish a project 2-3 days before I run the temperature up to 70º.

The shop is well insulated and really isn't expensive to heat.

[Jim Finn]

[QUOTE=Byron Chastain;1571630] Plus a cold floor! QUOTE]


Cold floor is fixed by a raised wooden floor.

[Tom Cornish]

I have a separated combustion gas heater in my shop. 2-stage 100,000BTU that heats about 650 sq ft of shop and 1000 sq ft of garage. It's north of 80% efficient.

I debated the whole radiant floor heating route. The thing that pushed me over the edge to just skip it was the need (for me at least) to have instant heat, which would mean raidant plus some kind of forced air heat.

Radiant would keep the area at some marginal temp (about 50 degrees), but if I wanted to go out and work for an hour or so I would either have to pre-plan to crank the heat up early, or be stuck with 50 degrees.

With the forced-air heater I can leave the shop a little cooler, and if I want to crank the heat up a bit, it only takes about 5 minutes to warm things 10 degrees.

[Byron Chastain]

I gave my shop specs, 30x60x10 insulated walls and a 5" concrete floor, to the guy designing my system. He said with the layout he gave me I should be able to maintain 69 inside with an outside temp of 0. He said to use a gas hot water heater (I can't find the specs on it) with 1/2" Pex 6-7 zones each tube spaced 1' apart.

I don't know if that's right or wrong. I know he makes a living designing radiant heat systems.

I was just worried about the cost of running the hot water heater. I would have to use an electric water heater. I don't want the hassle of placing a prop tank etc etc.

I guess im just wanting my cake.......

Ken I hear ya about the budget thing. I won't be able to afford the furnace until next year! (maybe!)

[Bud Millis]

Radiant floor heating is awesome. No need to worry about dust/heater problems. It warms everything up in the room. My next shop will have this.

[Byron Chastain]

Well I think I'm going to go with radiant heat. Now I need to decide if I want to do the outside wood furnace/boiler or an electric hot water heater! Any words of wisdom?

[Jason Pinsonneault]

why not put the wood stove system in or perhaps a corn furnace which will run in the same manner and if the proper hopper is installed can reliably run for itself for a few days without any attention or needing to be refilled, that way you can go away for a few days no problem, or you cousd stick with the wood furnace and find an inexpensive hot water heater to plumb into the system as well that could be shut off and only turned on when you plan on being away for a while, one thing ive heard of lots of people doing is running a complete second set of pex lines in the floor while you already there installing that way if the first one ever gets a hole in it somehow you have a backup, especially if you ever decide to drill a hole in your cement to install something such as a hoist or even a secondary wall. the extra pex line makes for cheap insurnace if you ever have a problem with the first one because then youll have to find a whole new heating method

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Byron,

If you live in a town...check with the building code office as to what they will or won't accept with regards to radiant floor heat.

If you don't live in a town, talk carefully with some of the radiant heat experts and land on the conservative side of the design from a safety standpoint.

Our local building code required a constant water source piped into the building or a special safety circuit on the water heater to prevent it from continuing to run should the system develop a leak and run the water heater dry.

Keep in mind, that if in the design you shortcut any safety aspects, should something bad happen, your insurance company could justifiably leave you hanging out to dry.

This is the route I wanted to take but didn't want to spend the extra bucks to plumb water into the shop. It was as costly or more when I got quotes from several local HVAC/plumbing contractors to install a system with the safety circuits involved. I finally gave up in disgust over the hassles.

[Byron Chastain]

Well I'm kinda lucky. I have a friend that's a plumber and one that's a manager at a plumbing supply company(Discount!!) We have already plumbed for a bathroom, washer, and going to run a water line from the house to the shop.

It's just a matter of more time than money right now. So I'm gonna get the floor in with my Pex and stub it all off until next summer after the old tax check comes in.

I thought about the water heater as a back up if I leave in the winter. Talked to my buddy and he said we can do that.

Gee this seems to be going from a simple system to major undertaking! I guess it will be worth it when it's all done and I have my man cave all done!

Thanks for all the input guys!

[Chuck Gallup]

Thanks for all the input guys!

I pumped concrete for many many lucky fellows building a shop.
About 8 years worth. As I live in a relatively small community, I see my customers all the time. It is only natural to ask about the "Shop".

Where we live it gets cold. Real cold.

The guys that put in pex get all gushy when asked about their shop.
"Oh ..... its so nice!"

With those who have worked in their new shop through a winter...I get the shake of the head...."Yeah, I wish I woulda put in in-floor heating"
They scratch and say...hindsight is 20/20.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In floor heating makes sense if your area gets cold.
20ºf is not cold.
Where I live, wrenches burned my hands in the summer and freeze to my hands in winter.
But I only worked in a rented shop for short periods. When it is cold...few heating systems work. I once spilled a bucket of hot water over a -20ºƒ floor and watched it freeze. The ice patch remained til spring.
A cold slab simply sucks the life out fella. Unless your life is on fire, you will find more ways to stay out of the shop.

Now, I'm building "My" shop. I want to be itching to get to the shop every morning even when it is 20 below!
But....I'll be making my living from the work within the shop.
Big difference.

Cold weather and my inability to get my drawings into permitting shut us down. We saw temps down to -12ºƒ.
So here my Pex sits.

And my footings will probably fill up when it melts:


;-)

[Byron Chastain]

BUUUUUUUURRR!!! We only get to the single digits or below for maybe a week or two in the winter. But the summer is hot and humid!