finishing cherry/tiger maple panel

[Robert Reece]

I am making a built-in that will have some cherry frame / tiger maple panels. What is my best bet for a finishing schedule on this? Just build it and spray it with poly? Do I need to do some prefinishing to the cherry before assembly, then spray the whole thing?

I was even thinking about dyeing the tiger maple to really make the tiger figure pop out, and this would most likely have to be done before assembly.

BTW, this built-in is a coat rack type thing in my foyer, so I get to see it A LOT. So I want to make sure I get this baby right.

[Scott Holmes]

Skip the poly... Poly is for floors.

It really doesn't need a varnish unless it will see wet coats from time to time.

There are much better varnishes out there - than polyurethane varnish. For cherry and light dyed maple; a very light colored, alkyd resin/soya oil varnish or the darker more UV stable; phenolic resin/linseed oil or phenolic resin/tung oil varnishes.

Depends on the color you want in the end. The alkyds varnishes yellow very little the phenolic resin varnishes amber as much as poly but are optically clearer.

[Robert Reece]

Thanks for the reply Scott. Some of that is over my head, so I will have to read up on the options you tossed out.

[Steve Schoene]

By the way, using dye to pop the tiger figure isn't just a matter of a dye application. First you dye, then you sand, leaving dye color to emphasize more porous parts of the figure where it has penetrated most deeply.

[Robert Reece]

So I've been reading up on this some more and have learned a few things (all from SMC of course!).

I realize that a polyurethane coat adds substantial durability and is not necessary for all finish applications.

In my case here I am making a built in coat hanger / shoe bin thing. It's going up against a half wall and then I am covering the whole top of this thing - about 60"x20" with a tiger maple panel (perhaps bordered with cherry).

So my concern is that the top is going to be used a lot like a table top. It is right inside the front door so all manner of stuff is going to be put up there - keys, wet gloves, grocery bags, etc. I have kids, so things I can't even imagine are going to be thrown up there.

In that case, should the top (and for that matter the shoe bin part) get a coat of polyurethane and the rest could go with some kind oil varnish with possibly a wax over it? I think at minimum I should put a coat of polyurethane on the tiger maple top since it is going to function closer to a table top then it is to interior trim or other low-use woodwork.

Edit: I've attached a picture so you can see what I'm talking about. The top and the panels will be tiger maple, the rest is cherry.

[John Coloccia]

re: popping

Try it on some scrap first to convince yourself (glue a piece of cherry and maple together and go), but I think you'll find that if you wipe on some blonde shellac mixed with a little amber shellac, and use a light cut (1 lb and maybe keep a little alcohol on the pad to thin it a little more if you wish) that you will pop the grain on the maple very nicely and leave the cherry practically untouched. Even blonde shellac on it's own will do a decent job though it's better with amber. I wouldn't use the ultra blonde, though.

[Casey Gooding]

To get the grain to pop, I prefer a coat of oil first. Something light, like tung oil won't affect the color of the maple too much. Go ahead and put in on the cherry as well and let it sit in the sun for a day. Really brings out the depth and beauty of cherry. Then topcoat and enjoy.

[Steve Schoene]

It is wrong to say that polyurethane adds substantial durability. What is true is that any oil based varnish adds substantial durability compared to other non-industrial finishes. Polyurethane is just one kind of oil based varnish, that rates well for abrasion, but lousy for rubbing out, adhesion, repairing down the road. The poly varnishes aren't as clear either.

[Robert Reece]

Thanks all for the suggestions.

I think this is the approach I am going to attempt on some scrap:
1. Mill all parts, hand sand to 150.
2. Apply diluted dye stain (color unknown at this point) to the figured maple (raises the grain, adds a little color).
3. Sand the figured maple with 180 to knock off the raised grain and remove some color from the non-figured parts.
4. Apply full strength dye stain to the figured maple, wet sand with maroon Scotch-Brite pad.
5. Assemble the frame and panel assembly - at this point I'll have unfinished cherry and the dyed figured maple.
6. Apply BLO to everything.
7. Sit in a sun for a few hours at a time for a while until I like the color.
8. Apply shellac to all parts.
9. For the shoe bin bottom and the figured maple top only, apply a coat of dewaxed shellac, then a few coats of water based non-yellowing poly.

We'll see how it goes and I'll post back what I learn.

[Casey Gooding]

I'm a bit unsure why you're planning on adding dye twice. If you must dye the maple, one application would do. You can do without wet sanding as the dye will get all over everything and really create a mess. Wet sanding is generally used on topcoats. When adding color, as with dye, if you wet sand you will simply be adding color and sanding it off at the same time. I would dye once, add BLO then shellac. The maple won't really benefit that much from the sun. The cherry will do nicely.

[Al Navas]

I'm a bit unsure why you're planning on adding dye twice. If you must dye the maple, one application would do. You can do without wet sanding as the dye will get all over everything and really create a mess....

Casey,

Woodweb has a good discussion, especially since it includes the part by Jeff Jewitt: http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas...rly_Maple.html - and it is pretty much what I used to finish the lid on this:



It produces a no-fail result with curly maple.

Al

[Casey Gooding]

Al, looks great!!!! If it works, keep at it. That's just an awful lot of finishing steps for me. I like to keep things as simple as possible.

[Robert Reece]

Yeah, as Casey linked to above, I am following steps that Jeff Jewitt laid out in an article in Fine Woodworking (I should have credited him in my post). He used a very dilute dye to raise the grain, then used a full strength dye and wet sanded it.

I am going to try it tomorrow, assuming I have a decent color dye here to play with (I might only have blue!).

[Scott Holmes]

use an alcohol dye and you don't have to worry about raising the grain.

[Chris Fournier]

Be careful when using alcohol dye stain as it fades quite readily when exposed to UVs. Of course you could use a UV resistant finish! I have found that the alcohol based dyes are best sprayed, they dry fast and this makes it more difficult to get an even colouration.

I have used water based "aniline" dye stains for a long time and have found them to offer the best colour fast properties.

You certainly can apply the dye in several stages to get the effect that you're after. Think of a sunburst guitar top and you can visualize the process. In fact I would highly recommend that you do a web search for "colouring" or "finishing" guitars. You'll find a ton of neat techniques and perhaps avoid a few pitfalls.

If you do add the dye in stages do some testing on scrap first. There comes a point when you're using water based dye solutions where the wood will acccept no more dye!

Mix full strength dye solutions and then dilute this full strength solution for your project. Use distilled water. The mixed dye will have a shelf life that out lasts most family pets which is nice - except for the pets.

The attached photo is "mahogany" water based dye stain on soft maple. The dye used was full strength.