Was There Ever a Time For Great Asian Tools?

[Mike Shields]

I think we all could agree that in recent times there has been increase in the amount of Asian tools being sold in this country. We might also agree that these tools are not of the highest quality.

So my question is:

has there ever been a time when Asian tools were of significant quality, to the point that you'd consider one over a US/Europe machine?

Just one of my usual off-the-wall thinking's,

Mike

[John Coloccia]

The SawStop is made in Asia. The only reason anyone gets poor tools from Asia is because the factories are following the specifications they're given. If they're given specs to make high quality tool, then they make high quality tools.

[Rod Sheridan]

The SawStop is made in Asia. The only reason anyone gets poor tools from Asia is because the factories are following the specifications they're given. If they're given specs to make high quality tool, then they make high quality tools.

Bingo.

It's all price driven, pay more money, get a higher grade machine.

The importers sell what their customers will pay for.

You import a Felder machine, you get a Felder grade machine and price.

You import a Delta machine, you get a Delta grade machine and a Delta price.

Same for manufacturing, pay for a high grade machine, you'll receive a high grade machine regardless of country of origin.

Whether the Delta was made in the USA or Taiwan, it was a lower grade machine than the Felder because that's what Delta wanted to produce. If they had wanted to produce $20,000 machines they would have, in either location.

Regards, Rod.

[Jim O'Dell]

From what I've gathered reading on the various forums, quality has increased over the years. And it just makes sense. There is always a learning curve to making something, even if you have the opportunity to learn from others' mistakes. I guess the best example I can give, again not from personal experience, is that early on, some of the Grizzly product lines reportedly had some problems. Over the years, these lines have been improved to where they are very well built, especially for the money. I can't imagine a table saw better built than my G0691. The next one I would have considered would have been more than double the price, and I just couldn't go there.
As factories upgrade to new technologies and equipment, quality should improve. That is what I think has happened to Asian built tools. Although John is correct...they will build to what ever specs you give them. It's just another job. Jim.

[Jamie Buxton]

Japan is in Asia. Japan produces some really fine tools -- planes, chisels, etc.

And if by Asia you mean China specifically, China had fine tools while Europe was still in the Dark Ages. There are Chinese chairs from a thousand years ago that have fantastically fine and complex joinery. That work wasn't done with poor tools.

[glenn bradley]

So my question is:

has there ever been a time when Asian tools were of significant quality, to the point that you'd consider one over a US/Europe machine?

Uh . . . Now? Just as we have to pick the right tool for the job, we have to pick the right tool from the seller. . . . I started a ramble on just how we pushed ourselves into this current market but, couldn't get there without bending or breaking the TOC . Europe has there own bargain brands. Geographic origin does not assure (or lessen) quality in and of itself.

[Stephen Cherry]

Bingo.


Same for manufacturing, pay for a high grade machine, you'll receive a high grade machine regardless of country of origin.



Regards, Rod.

This is mostly true. What I don't like is when machines come from the same factory with vastly different prices. For example, fine woodworking did a test on planers (FWW 127) and the same base machine from different importers had a cost range from about 850-1250 for the ubiquitous Taiwanese 15" planer.

Since that time, much of the manufacturing has moved to mainland China.

[Dave MacArthur]

Your premise is wrong to start with. To lump everything together as "asian machines" is a complete fallacy and a massive wrong assumption, and attempting to give an answer based on that totally incorrect viewpoint will necessarily give bogus results.

You are talking about completely different countries, with completely different workforces, training, economic policies, infrastructure... Different factories, different business laws and owners, and as others have pointed out, completely different specs.

This is like trying to compare the Cadillac Escalade to the Chevy Chevette, because they both come out of America from the same company (GM), or a BMW with a Renault because they both are made in Europe. It's intuitively obvious that different specs result in different cars even when many parts come off the same manufacturing lines... Why is it so hard to grasp the same thing applies to tool manufacture?

Machines coming out of various factories now are quite nice; to answer your question, NOW is the time the quality on some machines from "asia" have a quality/value pricepoint that makes them more attractive than US made or Euro made machines. SawStop sells a zillion more saws than Northfield or General. Grizzly sells a ton of machines... obviously every single buyer thought that "tools were of significant quality, to the point that you'd consider one over a US/Europe machine"--they voted with their money and actually bought one. Case closed.

[Mark Ashmeade]

I think we all could agree that in recent times there has been increase in the amount of Asian tools being sold in this country.

Agreed, indisputable.

We might also agree that these tools are not of the highest quality.

Absolutely disagree. The Chinese are a nuclear power, with ballistic missile submarines. They weren't made with Harbor Freight tools. However, the sales of the Harbor Freight tools in the US may well have paidfor the boats and missiles.

[Mike Shields]

Your premise is wrong to start with. To lump everything together as "asian machines" is a complete fallacy and a massive wrong assumption, and attempting to give an answer based on that totally incorrect viewpoint will necessarily give bogus results.

Well jeez. That's quite a lamb blasting.

After all these posts, and especially this last one, I should clarify:

did the Asians ever make good quality tools? To further define: I'm not talking about Delta or Jet or any other US company contracting out their work. There have been Taiwanese companies that produced their own tools, such as Champ Fond.

So, my OP should have read:

Has a company such as Champ Fond, which incidentally resides in Taiwan which is in Asia, ever manufacturer a tool of their own design, that could compete with such quality tools (historically) manufactured in the US, and would be worthy of consideration for purchase today?

[Peter Quinn]

I have some Japanese tools that are quite nice. Japan is still in Asia,
no? And the jointer I use is made in Taiwan. I like it, works great, and I'm pretty sure Taiwan is in Asia too?

[J.R. Rutter]

lamb blasting - lol, that's quite a mental image

As others have said, it is a mistake to judge tools by the low cost variants.

[John Coloccia]

Well jeez. That's quite a lamb blasting.

After all these posts, and especially this last one, I should clarify:

did the Asians ever make good quality tools? To further define: I'm not talking about Delta or Jet or any other US company contracting out their work. There have been Taiwanese companies that produced their own tools, such as Champ Fond.

So, my OP should have read:

Has a company such as Champ Fond, which incidentally resides in Taiwan which is in Asia, ever manufacturer a tool of their own design, that could compete with such quality tools (historically) manufactured in the US, and would be worthy of consideration for purchase today?

If you look at companies like Trupro and Geetech, I believe they design and manufacture their own tools, and also manufacture tools for others to rebrand and sell as their own. While the companies here may ask for tweaks, the basic general design is theirs.

Yeah, I would take a modern Asian bandsaw over most older US made bandsaws, for example. Certainly I would take a modern cabinet saw from Asia over practically ANY saws made at any time, anywhere, save for the last few years perhaps.

[Jim Becker]

"Where" something is made isn't as material to the bottom line question as is "how" it is made. Quality transcends geography. But quality also still costs more than too many folks are willing to pay. In that respect, we all have a hand in both the problem and the solution. Being amenable to paying for/investing in good quality goods, regardless of where they are manufactured will provide manufacturers less incentive to take shortcuts.

Something I've often typed in these forums is, "The most expensive tool is the one you have to replace early and often." I really believe that and make my purchasing decisions accordingly.

[Ted Wong]

The SawStop is made in Asia. The only reason anyone gets poor tools from Asia is because the factories are following the specifications they're given. If they're given specs to make high quality tool, then they make high quality tools.

I think that is only partially true. Members of my family have worked for companies where their companies have outsourced to Asia (Taiwan and China).
When elastic back braces were first coming into being in the mid 80's and early 90's my father was eager to jump on the Asian manufacturing band-wagon and thought it would save his company wads of cash. He brought over a company sample product made in the USA to a Chinese manufacturing plant in China to have them sew up a limited production run. What they shipped over was unsalable and had major production flaws and was . . . well just plan ugly.
My sister in-law works for Medtronic and she had been working on having a company stateside manufacture some components for her company but her supervisor vetoed her source and pushed the job overseas to Taiwan. Two years later they still can't get the manufacturer their to comply with quality control specs.
I think an attitude of mediocrity pervades Asian manufacturing (excluding Japan) because the American public doesn't demand better. People are now used to going to Walmart and buying essentially disposable junk, throwing it out every couple of years and buying new again. And of course we have now seen the implications of this behavior on our economy and lives.