Sprayer Recomendations (I'm clueless)

[Michael Drew]

My "shop" is my garage. It's directly under the master bedroom too. Because of this little location issue, I have not considered using a sprayer before. I do my best with foam brushes, good regular brushes and tend to stick to water based finishes. My problem with this is that I absolutely hate finishing my projects with a brush. No matter what I do, I end up with flaws in the finish. It's very aggravating to spend hours on end building a project to just screw it up when finishing it. I've decided to give spraying a whirl. I figured out how to ventilate the garage while using the sprayer, so I think the smell will be controllable, somewhat.

Having never owned anything but a Wagner airless (that I can't stand), I have no idea what to look for. Whatever I end up with, it needs to small enough to spray into those awkward tight spots.

Any suggestions for what I should be looking at?? I don't even know how much to expect to spend, but I do not want to buy junk that I'll just end up replacing six months later. I'd rather just buy something good that will last once.

thanks......mike

[Scott Holmes]

Spraying is faster; does not make your finishing better.

When the project is done, no one should be able to tell if it was wiped-on, brushed, rolled or sprayed. Technique is the key to a great finish, not the tool.

[Michael Drew]

You are more skilled than I then. How do you go about finishing inside corners with a water based finish without having bubbles or other oddities?

[Scott Holmes]

A quality brush will make a big difference as does the technique used appling it.

[Shawn Christ]

Michael, you found a good resource in Scott -- he knows his stuff and I would defer to him. I think he makes a good point that "practice makes perfect".

Being a hobbyist for several years now I struggled with the same issues you are. Went from using foam brushes to a quality bristle brush; results improved but I still wasn't happy with the finish. Then I tried wipe-on varnish blends (do a search here); results improved greatly over brushing. Then I tried spraying on my last two projects (waterborne and shellac) and also had very good results. Now I prefer to keep the brushes in the cabinet and either wipe or spray (spray outdoors).

I own two inexpensive spray guns: a critter siphon gun ($35 Amazon) and a "professional" HVLP gun (purple body w/ brass fittings, $40 on sale Harbor Freight). My Porter Cable Job Boss compressor is a little undersized per the specs for the HVLP but seems to work fine. Both guns give good results, but the Critter has a smaller pattern so is better suited for small projects.

It also helped me to read up on finishing -- I bought Jeff Jewitt's/Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Finishing. Despite some misnumbered pages in the table of contents, it's a good reference book for all things finishing. Good luck!

[Tony Bilello]

My "shop" is my garage....I figured out how to ventilate the garage while using the sprayer....
Go HVLP. You will get less overspray which translates into a smaller 'cloud' not to mention the savings on spray chemicals. My HVLP makes my lacquer go twice as far. I spray in customers garages on a somewhat regular basis. If I am spraying a color, I can spray all day with short pants on and not get any lacquer on my legs or shoes other than the dust that blows off.

.... Whatever I end up with, it needs to small enough to spray into those awkward tight spots.
Awkward tight spots? What do you intend to spray?

I'd rather just buy something good that will last once.
Get a self contained HVLP unit with a turbine. The portability is a big feature. Depending on how much you want to spend, you should find something between $150 and $300 that will serve you well at a hobby level.

thanks......mike

Generally, you get what you pay for.

Tony B

[Matt Meiser]

I'm no good with a brush either, though I'm getting better.

For a spray system, check out the Earlex HVLP turbine system which gets great reviews. That's what I'd have if I hadn't come across a great deal on what was originally a much more expensive system--and I still paid more than the Earlex. With an HVLP turbine system you won't have to worry about having a big enough compressor and its completely portable if you need to spray something outside the shop.

[Steve Schoene]

The other thing is that the finish isn't done after it is applied, whether by brush or spray. To achieve a fine finish requires rubbing out. With great spray technique and the right products that might be pretty minimal and brushing might leave a bit more to do. Nonetheless, the end result can be, as Scott says indistinquishable between the two methods.

[Darius Ferlas]

When the project is done, no one should be able to tell if it was wiped-on, brushed, rolled or sprayed.

You haven't seen my brushing "technique"

I do OK with smaller pieces, but when it came to larger surfaces I just couldn't get the hang of it so I got me a cheap HVLP system (HF for $75 on sale), and now my finish actually does look better.

[Michael Drew]

I've progressed through all types of brushes, finishes, and technique. I buy the best brushes I can find, always, price not a concern. I figure that after spending several hundred dollars on the wood, and spending dozens of hours of my time to make something, I'm not about to go cheap with a stinking brush. However, the only time I've had good luck, was when using an oil based finish on flat surfaces and water based on vertical surfaces, but not if there is any abrupt edging or trim. I sand my projects with 120, 150, 180, 220 and sometimes 320 if I'm going for a gloss finish - in that order. I then use mineral spirits on a rag to get the dust off. Then I use conditioner for soft woods, hard woods I go right to the finish. I lightly hand sand between coats and re-wipe with the mineral spirits. I rub the final coat with bees wax. I always work with the grain.

I'm not new to this, I just suck at it, and am tired of trying new ways to make a brush application work. To make assumptive comments like "technique is the key to a great finish, not the tool", without asking what my technique is, is just being condescending and not helpful.

Thanks for the recommendations of the sprayer. HVLP seams to be the preferred sprayer. I looked at the Earlex. It's a bit large for what I was thinking. I tend to build a lot of cabinet orientated things with shelving and face trim. Having not used HVLP sprayers before, I'm unfamiliar with how well they spray into these right angled tight spots. How close does the nozzle have to be to the work??

As far as price is concerned, $500 or less is a figure that I had in the back of my mind.

[Steve Schoene]

Again, you didn't mention the most important step when describing your process. AFTER the final coat you should be expecting to sand, albeit with 400 or 600 grit, to remove those defects. Then you use finer and finer abrasives to bring it to the desired sheen. It's an essential part. Whether you brush or spray there are always going to be defects of some kind. Spraying is likely to leave some orange peel, and runs are more insiduous until you really move up the learning curve. Insides of cabinets are very challenging to spray, enough that for most cabinets (at least of the kitchen or vanity variety) prefinished ply is a great choice.

I'm also going to point out the value of conversion HVLP guns. They don't have the warm air that can sometimes be a problem. And, having a larger compressor in the shop is often very handy for other reasons.

[Scott Holmes]

" my technique is, is just being condescending and not helpful."

Sorry, no condescension intended. When you brush varnish there are a few tricks that many people tend to overlook or ignore...

1. Always pre-condition the BRUSH (not the wood). Pre-conditioners are for softwoods and woods that then to blotch. Pre-conditioning the brush befor use is nothing more than dipping your brush in mineral spirits (for varnish) to make sure it is full of MS then gently shake some of the MS out of the brush. NOW the brush is ready to use and the brush will clean up MUCH easier. (This tip also makes buying those $$$ brushes OK because they will last for years and years. IMHO it takes about 2 years for them to be a GREAT brush; that's about how long it takes for them to get flagged ends and STOP leaving bristles behind.

2. Most varnishes now-a-days are too thick to brush... EPA's VOC regulations are to blame, not the manufacturer. Thinning the varnish 5% to 20% depending on the thickness is best for brushing.

Hope this helps.