I respect your choice Allan, but is the quality of flake produced shellac that much better than seal coat at about 40 a gallon?
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I respect your choice Allan, but is the quality of flake produced shellac that much better than seal coat at about 40 a gallon?
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I think we all know that's in the eye of the beholder :-).Originally Posted by Prashun Patel
FWIW I use SealCoat as a base layer and sealant, though I also use flakes as a finish. SealCoat's chemistry is interesting though. I would not have guessed that you could stabilize shellac that way.
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Never tried the stuff.
Is sealcoat that much better than flake shellac? (You tell me.)
Contributor
If you want to use the shellac as a sealer, I would purchase SealCoat rather than try to make my own dewaxed shellac from flakes.Never tried the stuff.
Is sealcoat that much better than flake shellac? (You tell me.
But if you plan to use the shellac as a finish, I'd probably go with the flakes (if I had flakes and alcohol). To do a good French polish, you need the wax in the shellac.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
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I am going to use DNA for soaking bowls, and checked this thread for advice. I looked at the cans of Sunnyside brand (Menards) and found two types.
The one labeled Denatured Alcohol Solvent was labeled as less than 4% Methanol. Methanol is my main concern due to toxicity. I had a newer can, labeled denatured alcohol for stove fuel. When I checked the Safety Data Sheets for ALL of the Sunnyside versions of DNA, they all have the same product number 834 and contain 30-60% ethanol and 30-61% methanol, not good at all.
I checked all the other stores and numerous brands, and the only one I found readily available was Klean Strip Green, which is 95% ethanol and a small amount of methanol.
This brand was available by special order only from Menards, and on the shelf at Home Depot. I called the manufacturer, W M Barr and they package only in pints and quarts, not in 5-gal pails, which makes it quite pricey, 6.67 per quart, 26.68 per gallon, or 133.4 for 5-gal.
For comparison, Menards sells Sunnyside DNA thinner for 35.3 for 5-gal, but with a minimum of 30% methanol. Cheap or safe, that is the choice.
I wonder if the use of ethanol in gasoline has driven up the price?
Bob Boettcher
Contributor
Denatured means poisonous,and that is the main legal requirement. So they can use whatever they want. For your purpose I would just look for cheap and avoid the fumes.
Contributor
All ethanol is alcohol but not all alcohols are ethanol. Ethanol with no denaturant is taxable/regulated as booze regardless if it's consumed or used to clean equipment. It's all about the bucks.
David beat me to it. Here's the info from the website:
KS.jpg
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By seven years no less!
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Liquids containing Ethanol that are not otherwise toxic (specifically that aren't otherwise toxic enough to hurt you before you can get drunk) are legally classified as liquors. As Mel alluded, the entire point of DNA is that it's poisonous, such that it isn't legally a liquor.
If you want something that you can use for a bowl then your best bet may be Everclear 190 (oh the hazy memories) or lab-grade Ethanol. They'll both cost more as they're both taxed as liquor, but so it goes.
Of course if you know somebody with a still...
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 08-18-2017 at 5:27 PM.
Contributor
I've wondered ( but not researched ) why they don't use the word "poisonous". Many products are marked poisonous. Since they mean same thing why use a pretty obscure word ? We all have heard of deaths from bad real hooch and "cheap imitations " of REAL hooch.
Contributor
It's been 30+ years since ethanol was co-distilled with benzene to produce absolute ethanol. Even then, the whole point was to make pure ethanol so there wasn't much, if any, benzene in the ethanol. I'm not sure what the current method is, but it doesn't involve benzene.
Contributor
DENATURED doesn't mean poisonous necessarily. It just means that additives make it undrinkable. Many companies use "bitterants" that make it taste really bad without making it poisonous. I generally avoid the big box "Denatured Alcohol" because they tend to use Methyl Alcohol, which is poisonous. I've also had several failures to dissolve flake shellac with big box DNA. I don't use it any more.
The best solution I've found is to purchase DNA sold as fuel for stoves and indoor fireplaces. You can get it by the quart or gallon on Amazon (often with free shipping) and if you select a brand that is advertised as "non-toxic" (most are), it will be high-proof Ethyl Alcohol with added bitterants - no Methyl and no Benzene.
Contributor
For making up shellac I use the "Bekhol" proprietary mix from Behlen for making up my shellac. It works well, seems to have a long shelf life once the flakes are dissolved, and is not subject to the reformulation whims of the big box store providers. I only use a couple liters a year, so the overall cost is trivial. I rinse my brushes out in whatever I've picked up most recently at the Borg, they all seem to be fine for that.
In grad school we used to redistill the lab 95% ethanol, then we found that treating with activated carbon and filtration removed all the nasties and produced quite a palatable product.
Contributor
Good point ,Ted. I've heard that medical alcohol is made bitter to ...make it last longer. But it is still expensive even though it probably is exempt from the high taxes on the the good stuff.
I've seen a few comments that seem to imply that grain alcohol has gone from liquor stores for some health thing. Some states never allowed it. But the reason it's disappearing is post 911 precautions. Federal law now requires buildings that have it stored to have much higher fire proofing.
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