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Thread: Interesting discovery - dial indicator on jointer

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Denver
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    10

    Interesting discovery - dial indicator on jointer

    Maybe I'm just not as sharp as I ought to be, but something I discovered last night surprised me. But I'll pass this on in case others could not figure out why their jointers did not work as well as expected even after precisely setting the knife height with a dial indicator.

    I used to use one of those magnetic knife setting jigs, but last time I set my knives I used a dial indicator for greater accuracy. I was only building a porch at the time, so accuracy to furniture standards was not necessary, but I sensed something was amiss. Since the porch project thoroughly dulled my knives, last night I set out to install a newly sharpened set. I had built a magnetic jig to firmly hold the indicator out over the knives.

    They key to accuracy, of course, is making measurements from the highest point in the arc of travel of the knife, or "top dead center." I placed the indicator over the first knife and slowly moved the knife back and forth until the needle on the dial would move in one direction, then stop and move back the other direction. This I always interpreted as having found the top of the arc or the highest point in the knife travel - i.e., the knife has reached the top of the arc and is beginning to move back own. So I made the settings at the point where the dial paused between moving one direction and another, assuming I had found the top of the arc. WRONG.

    After setting one end of the knife to .002 above the outfeed, I moved to the other end. After setting that, I moved the jig back to the first end to check and it was off by .006 or so. Hmmm, I thought maybe tightening the bolts caused the shifting. I reset it all and got a totally different set of readings. So I sat back and pondered - then it dawned on me. The end of the dial indicator pointer is a little tiny ball bearing. The only way you can measure actual top dead center is if the knife is truly at its highest point AND the knife is contacting the very tip of the ball bearing. This seems nearly impossible to achieve to me. Almost no matter where you place the jig you will see the needle move one way, stop, then move the other way - not because the knife has reached the true top of it's arc, but because it has moved past the tip of the ball bearing and is moving down the side of the ball. It gives the appearance of the top of an arc, but it is not. So what did I do? I moved the jig to the middle of my outfeed and took a steel plate diamond honing "stone" and lifted the pointer and put the steel plate under it and slide it back and forth until I has accurately made the ball bearing into a flat spot. Having the ball bearing flat cancels out the false reading of the top of the arc caused by the round ball. Now the only time I see the needle move one way, pause and move the other way is when the knife is at true dead center.

  2. #2
    Doug,

    You are not alone. I figured that I needed something flat to reference off of and the following fits the bill:

    http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1782

    I have another dial indicator and magnetic stand but really needed the tips that come in the "indicator point set". So at the price of $17. for the whole kit and kabootle (sp?) I figured what the heck, 2's better than one. Delivered it was $27.55. They are back in stock.

    There is an excellent article in the current American Woodworker that referenced this combo and source as well as very good instructions for using them.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Mendham, New Jersey
    Posts
    613
    Doug,

    I had similar problems with my jointer. I got so frustrated, I decided the factory must've done a better job than I could so I didn't adjust anything. In addition to the little ball bearing issue, I also had problems because for some reason, my base had this little joint in the rod. Everytime I moves the indicator, that rod would flex a little and there was nothing I could do to stop it.

    Fortunately, I too saw the magazine article and ordered the kit from the little machine shop. It comes with a bunch of different inidicator points and a rigid arm and should (hopefully) solve the problems I was having.

    It better....

    Jack
    Last edited by Ken Salisbury; 01-05-2005 at 7:11 AM. Reason: removed profanity acronym

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Laguna Beach , Ca.
    Posts
    7,201
    I have found the best way is to use a straight edge on the out feed table. Move the blade slowly until it just touches the blade. The out feed table should be set just a slight increment lower since the joiner is actuallly cutting a series of arcs as the board moves. The low point of the arcs is what actually rests on the table..
    "All great work starts with love .... then it is no longer work"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Pacific, Mo.
    Posts
    2,835
    You could always purchase a tip for your indicator that was flat on the bottom or at the very least was larger. They are made to indicate on rough stock so as not to bend the stem on the indicator.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Round Rock, TX (near Austin)
    Posts
    166
    Doug - I had the same issue. The set of pointer tips from www.littlemachineshop.com is great. I ordered mine a week ago and got it in the mail a few days later for $6.20 total.

    No more problems. The folks at littlemachineshop were very friendly and happy for even my small purchase.

    Good Luck -- Kevin

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska
    Posts
    731
    As someone mentioned you can get a flat shoe for your dial indicator. Once you find top dead center I put a square across the jointer table and now I can slide the dial indicator back and forth maintain TDC.

    Sorry about the photo quality, had to to this in a hurry. Time to go to work.

    <img src="http://www.fototime.com/9EC71B219516B1C/standard.jpg" border=0>

    <img src="http://www.fototime.com/D4769E9B7A5B9CE/standard.jpg" border=0>
    Rich
    ALASKANS FOR GLOBAL WARMING

    Eagle River Alaska

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Santa Barbara County, CA
    Posts
    499
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Herber
    Doug - I had the same issue. The set of pointer tips from www.littlemachineshop.com is great. I ordered mine a week ago and got it in the mail a few days later for $6.20 total.

    Good Luck -- Kevin

    Thanks for the link guys.

    I've been wanting to buy a concave or flat tip for my dial indicator for awhile.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    157
    Rich ...

    That's either one tiny indicator or one whale of a big jointer!!!

    Jim

  10. #10

    Thumbs up

    Doug I bought the TS Aligner Jr. and found out throught trial and error that the little ball tip just didn't "cut it" with the jointer alignment. I asked them if they had a flat tip and was told no. Working on fixing my band saw, I found out they (Iturra Designs) had a whole line of tips. I bought the flat tip, about 1/4" square, and Wa La! Now my dial guage works great for finding the TDC and elevation relative to the outfeed table. All this is to say you can get the tip from Iturra Designs.
    If sawdust were gold, I'd be rich!

    Byron Trantham
    Fredericksburg, VA
    WUD WKR1

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska
    Posts
    731

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim VanBramer
    Rich ...

    That's either one tiny indicator or one whale of a big jointer!!!

    Jim
    That's a 16" wide Jointer Planer combo.
    Rich
    ALASKANS FOR GLOBAL WARMING

    Eagle River Alaska

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