Cyclone opinions/ advice needed

[Brian Cosgrove]

I believe I am going to get an Oneida V3000 3hp cyclone, and have based my decision on the numerous threads on this site. I have also read alot of Bill Pentz's site as well. I have a 24 x 36 shop, with the stationary tools pretty much confined to a 24 x 24 section. I have a Hammer A3-31 12" jointer/planer combo and am awaiting delivery of a Felder FB600 bandsaw (5.5hp) and Hammer K3 sliding saw. I also have a Delta 17-959 drill press and 12" miter saw, as well as router table. I plan to run 6" lines from cyclone to all stationary machines, with the longest run being to the jointer/planer (20ft horizontal along ceiling, long radius 90 elbow, 3 feet solid down and flex to machine.) All other runs will be shorter. Only one machine will be in use at a time. I like the Clearvue cyclone, but do not really care for the mdf blower housing and transition piece (strictly because of aesthetics. I prefer solid metal). For those who have the Oneida V3000, do you wish you would've got the V5000 5hp model? Also, is there any downside to getting the larger model? The couple hundred dollars difference isn't really an issue. Can you oversize a dc? The main thing I did notice is the difference of air filter size between the clearvue and oneida. Is this going to be a major factor? Also, if so, has anyone here ever added larger filters to the Oneida? Would that help or hurt performance? If anyone has an opinion on a compatible, quality blower that I can put on a Clearvue, I would be open to using that system. Thanks for reading this long post, and I appreciate anyone's advice.

P.S. In addition to the cyclone, I may add an air cleaner at a later time to clean up additional fine dust that may linger in the shop.

[Paul McGaha]

Hi Brian,

I have a 2 HP Oneida Dust Gorilla. My shop is a 2 car garage. I have the basic tools (Table Saw, Jointer, Planer, Drum Sander, Shaper, Band Saw, Miter Saw).

My unit was sized by Oneida. They told me so long as I'm only running one tool at a time a 2 HP would cover all my tools and then some. I have to say it does pull the dust out of the tools. If I had to do it again though, I would have done at least a 3 HP because it was only about $100 more than a 2 HP. I may even have done a 5 HP which was only $300 more than a 2 HP. These extra $$$ are only a fraction of the cost of the complete system.

I regret I didnt upgrade a little. But like I said the 2 HP does pull the dust out of the machines as Oneida said it would.

Good luck with it. I'd buy Oneida again and recommend them to anyone.

PHM

[Rod Sheridan]

Brian, yes you can have too large of a cyclone.

Once you have a machine large enough to generate the static preessures and flow rates required in your ducts, that's as much as you need.

If your ducts are sized correctly, the ductwork will be a limiting factor.

Provide the airflow requirements for your machines to Oneida, and have them do a calculation for you.

Felder will have the specs for all 3 machines, and your K3 has below and above table collection so provide both numbers to Oneida.

I have a 1.5HP Oneida that's at its limit with my B3, however I only have 10 feet of duct so it works fine.

Don't worry about the filter sizes, Oneida do the calculations for you.

Once you collect the dust at the source, you won't need an air cleaner, since if you do, you also need to wear a dust mask as the dust is in the air.

Regards, Rod.

[Kent Chasson]

Brian, yes you can have too large of a cyclone.

What is the downside?

[Jim O'Dell]

I've had the Clear Vue for 5 years now...I haven't seen an issue with the MDF. I did put 3 coats of poly on the MDF before assembling, and since I exhaust outside, I rebuilt the transition, but still used MDF for it. The main reason I went with the CV was that it followed Bill's parameters for the cone ratio. I have not been disappointed on second. Jim.

[Philip Rodriquez]

I have a V-3000 and I do really like it and it has more than enough power to run 1 tool at a time. The only down side I see is that I also run an excalibur overarm blade guard...so a little more CFM would be welcome... but it catches most of it.

[Rod Sheridan]

More money spent for no increase in performance due to duct design.

As well you need air flow to have the cyclone separate the dust out of the airstream. If you have to open gates on machines you're not using you're wasting electricity.

Regards, Rod.

[Kent Chasson]

More money spent for no increase in performance due to duct design.

I'm still trying to figure out the best size for my shop and have pretty much decided to over-size based on the thought that I will get better performance in the short run and can keep the collector if I increase the size of my shop later. From all the reading I've done, even if I keep 4" ports on my machines with 4" drops, I will pull more air with a bigger impeller. Don't you just plug the static pressure into the fan curve to get the CFM at the machine? If so, you get better performance with a DC that pulls more air at a higher SP. What am I missing?

As well you need air flow to have the cyclone separate the dust out of the airstream. If you have to open gates on machines you're not using you're wasting electricity.

Regards, Rod.

I don't get that either. If what I said above is true, then you will have more flow to the cyclone with the same # of gates open. Not arguing. I'm just trying to figure this out and there seems to be some contradictory opinions.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Kent, you run into increasing frictional losses as the airspeed increases, which is what happens when you exceed standard speeds in standard ductwork.

Yes you will have more airflow with a larger cyclone, however it's not linear, you pay more and more for diminishing returns.

You are far better off optimising your cyclone selection for your airflow requirements.

Of course if you are expecting to move or drastically alter your shop then you would know in advance that you want to oversize your cyclone for your planned changes.

The largest user of air in my shop is my tablesaw with a cabinet port and an over blade port. Allowing 500 to 600 CFM for the cabinet and 200 to 300 for the blade port gives you an airflow of 700 to 900 CFM.

At those flow rates the collector does pick up almost all the material, and the manufacturer of the saw provides certification to meet current standards. Increasing the airflow past that point provides diminishing returns, rapidly.

The best performance/cost balance comes from optimising the fan/ductwork/machine requirements.

Regards, Rod.

[Burt Alcantara]

I have the ClearVue CV1400 which is the smaller cyclone (same 5hp motor). I have about 35-40' of ducting with 5 ports. Forgetful me will sometimes have the cyclone running with all ports open and I don't even notice. I do this at the end of the day to clear out lingering dust. Come back to the shop and forget to close the ports.

Personally, I think all the specs are BS. Turn the machine on. Does it suck or not? Even with my sloppy setup, it sucks all the machines clean.

[Chris Parks]

It has occurred to me lately that a dust extractor that has more capacity than a single duct to a machine might be a good thing. Dust always is present in the air, we can't escape that so if we had a duct open to the air as a permanent thing plus the operating duct to the cyclone the air would be scrubbed while the machine is on. Yes, I know about filters etc but this method would work and is part of the duct installation.

[Philip Rodriquez]

I should have added this: Call Oneida... If you give them a shop drawing, they will size the system to meet your needs... and they can do the duct-work design (free if you are >3HP)!

[Joe Cowan]

I just installed the V2000 and love it. I left one gate valve open yesterday, by mistake, and ran my planer. I could not tell there was less draw and now feel I could run two machines at one time, if needed.

[Aaron Montgomery]

I just installed a V3000 in my shop and have all of my duct work run, though I haven't really had much of a chance to use it yet. I went with the V3000 over the V5000 because I knew that I was using 6" duct the whole way. The V5000 has an 8" inlet. Running the V5000 with 6" ductwork provided less an a 5% improvement over the V3000. The other thing that drove me to the V3000 is that it's about 50% quieter than the V5000 based on the posted noise levels. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for buying tools with more power, but I just didn't see any upside for me to own the V5000 over the V3000. I can tell you that the V3000 is a substantial improvement over the HFDC that it replaces.

[Jamie Buxton]

Yes, you can have a DC that's too big. When I first used my cyclone with my Hammer A3-31 jointer-planer, the jointer howled like a siren. It turned out that the cutter block was modulating the size of the only opening where air was rushing into the system. That, perhaps in conjunction with the corrugations inside the flex, caused a siren-like effect. The neighbors came over to complain. I fixed it by cutting the dust shroud in the jointer to open it up, so the modulation effect is smaller. The A3-31 is the older model, built in 2000 or so. New ones might or might not work this way.