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Thread: Getting into sublimation

  1. #1

    Getting into sublimation

    Hi folks,

    I've been in laser engraving business for about a year, and i had many customers asking about sublimation and color printing, so I started thinking about adding the sublimation line to my business.
    I came across the options available, but i got confused on how much variety is there in terms of heat presses and printers.
    I would appreciate any help and advice to help whether to choose an expensive fancy heat press or more economic, all in one press, and which printers are better than others. The budget is a critical issue for me, but as always I'm concerned to buy the cheap stuff.
    Your help and input here is highly appreciated.

    Rand
    Laser Engraving Concepts
    Mississauga, ON

  2. #2
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    Rand,
    I would suggest two things - first, check out the dye sub forum at dyesub dot org, they are specialists there and you'll find expertise that you won't find elsewhere. Second, call Kevin Lumberg at Johnson Plastics. That's who I bought my equipment from over 4 years ago when I was doing exactly what you are. Kevin spent lots of time with me on the phone explaining the different types of equipment and what works. His background was as a retailer before he worked for JP, so he knows what the "real world" issues are with dye sub. You can trust that he is going to help you get what you need, not just sell you some stuff that makes him a bigger commission.

    My advice on the equipment is don't go cheap, you will end up buying twice if you buy cheap the first time. Get a good press, I have a DK20S. I am using an Epson R1800 but there are newer printers now and better technologies available. Don't buy "all-in-one", the components are never as good as individual pieces of equipment and when one goes down it will likely bring down the rest. Get mug wraps and a convection oven, don't buy a dedicated press. There is a huge price difference and you can press many times more mugs per hour with wraps than you can ever do with a press.

    Good luck!

    Gary

  3. #3
    Rand,
    I had an Epson 4800 at it was always clogging, I hated to even take a job. Wasted more ink the I used I switched to the Ricoh GX7000 it has never clogged even after siting for a few weeks not used. Since it uses a gel ink. As for a heat press I would go with whatever the largest size you can print so you're not limited to what you can do. I have a 16x20 and has paid off with being able to do larger items. I like Conde a bit better the Johnson Plastics only cause it seems I can ever get everything from one warehouse, shipping adds up quick.
    Hope it helps,
    Charity
    hope it helps

  4. #4
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    Rand,

    Consider dye-sublimating Glacier White Dupont Corian when you get your gear. I charge $1.12 per square inch which is $89.60 for an eight by ten plaque. More profitable for me than mugs and shirts.
    .

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    Rand,

    Consider dye-sublimating Glacier White Dupont Corian when you get your gear. I charge $1.12 per square inch which is $89.60 for an eight by ten plaque. More profitable for me than mugs and shirts.
    .
    Keith I have only been able to find one source for Corian Plaques.

    Where can I get plaques that have been cut and finished edges?


    Thanks!
    Martin Boekers

    1 - Epilog Radius 25watt laser 1998
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    2 - Geo Knight K20S 16x20 Heat Press
    Geo Knight K Mug Press,
    Ricoh GX-7000 Dye Sub Printer
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    of distruction/distraction!

  6. #6
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    Martin,

    If you can't make your own you can order tham from Northwind Associates (me)
    Any size, any shape and just about any style edge prep with keyhole hangers.
    .

  7. #7
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    Keith,
    I have been laboring under the assumption that everything sublimated had to have a special coating. That is obviously not true if it's working on Corian. I am considering getting a system also and have been thinking of a Richo printer. I already have a great 16 x 20 Hotronix Swinger heat press. What kind of printer and ink do you use? I would be interested in buying some plaques from you.
    Epilog Legend EXT36-40watt, Corel X4, Canon iPF8000 44" printer,Photoshop CS6, Ioline plotter, Hotronix Swinger Heat Press, Ricoh GX e3300 Sublimation

  8. #8
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    Keith,

    Can this Corian be had in 1/4 inch sheets smooth on both sides? Could I print on both sides?

    AL
    1 Laser, 4 CarveWrights, Star 912 Rotary, CLTT, Sublimation, FC7000 Vinyl, 911 Signs, Street Signs, Tourist Products and more.
    Home of the Fire Department "Epoxy Dome Accountability Tag and Accountability Boards".

  9. #9
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    Dye-sub works based on the substrate containing a certain amount of polyester. Corian has some polyester in its mix.
    I cook 1/2" thick Corian plaques for 20 minutes at 325degrees F.

    I have been using Artainium UV+ ink that I purchase from Alpha Supply for my Epson 1280 printer. Most of the new printers are much better then mine so its time for me to upgrade. I own a George Knight 16 by 20 heat press and a 24" by 30" heat press that is an antique but it still works.

    !/4" thick Corian is available in several colors but it is hard to get because few distributors stock thin material. They will order 1/4" Corian for you but most require that you purchase a skid. Most if they have it in stock will sell it by the sheet which is 30" by 96". I haven't had an opportunity to dye-sub 1/4" thick Corian yet so I don't know if the soak time will be less although I expect it will.

    Awhile back Angus Hines and I purchased a pickup truck load of 1/4" Cameo White from a company that was going out of business, The sheets we purchased were 30" by 59" in size, I have a few sheets left. The 1/4" thick Glacier White and Cameo White can also be used to laser engrave lithophanes although Mike Null is the only one I know that has made one with his laser. If you search the Engravers Forum archives Mike posted a picture of his lithophane, it was pretty amazing.

    If you have a heat press you can bend Corian into an almost endless number of shapes, once it is heated it is about as limp as a noodle so its pretty flexible and becomes hard again when it cools to about 180 degrees. Most of the time you need to make a matched male and female form to clamp Corian to until it cools and hold its new shape.

    Dye-sub Corian plaques sell really well, they have a very high perception of value. I have several threads that I have started here that have some pictures of my Corian dye-sub work. Al, I don't know if you can dye sublimate both sides of a plaque but I expect that it would have to be done at the same time. Putting a dye-sub plaque back into a heat press would most likely ruin the first side.

    Corian laser engraves extremely well and it is an excellent material for CNC or hand routing.

    I make 3" by 12" laser engraved name plaques from the scraps left over from sheets that I purchase for door signs. The sale of the name plaques pays for the 12 foot long sheet of Corian that produces sixty 6" by 8" door sign plaques
    .
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 01-10-2011 at 8:56 PM.

  10. #10
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    Anything you can scan or take a picture of you can dye-sub on Corian. Here are a few suggestions to get you started:

    Wedding pictures and announcements.

    Birth Certificates.

    Professional certificates and college diplomas.

    Pictures of people with their hot rods and Harley's.

    Pictures of new commercial buildings.

    Corporate logos in back splashes, on podiums, etc.

    Pictures that can be hung in a shower, tub or bathroom wall. Moisture isn't a problem.

    Menus for restaurant walls or kitchen plaques, these you can wipe clean with a damp cloth.

    Tickets for events can be enlarged and printed as souvenirs. These can be sold by your customer to raise money for opening night events or given to those who make large donations.

    Check your library for very old newspapers and dye-sub the advertisements for companies that are a hundred years old. They will snatch them out of your hand and it will probably get you an instant meeting with the company President.

    Most of these projects can be converted to clocks or you can make intricate clock faces.

    Glacier Ice Corian is translucent, it can be dye-sublimated and back lit. Get the 1/4" thick Glacier Ice if you can find it.
    .
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 01-10-2011 at 9:57 PM.

  11. #11
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    Keith:
    You wrote "Dye-sub works based on the substrate containing a certain amount of polyester. Corian has some polyester in its mix.
    I cook 1/2" thick Corian plaques for 20 minutes at 325degrees F."
    You mean you "cook" it in your heat press? or what? It has to have pressure applied doesn't it?
    Epilog Legend EXT36-40watt, Corel X4, Canon iPF8000 44" printer,Photoshop CS6, Ioline plotter, Hotronix Swinger Heat Press, Ricoh GX e3300 Sublimation

  12. #12
    Yes, that's what he means. It's 325 degrees in the press for 20 minutes. Dye Sub needs to be in the 400 degree range for it to work quickly. Not being able to get to 400 without melting the corian means you have to add the additional time on it.

    At 400 degrees, it's a 1 minute operation to get it to sublimate. At 320, it takes 20 minutes.

    Also, Corian will curl on the edges pretty severely if you heat it and let it sit, without clamping it while it cools.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
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    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  13. #13
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    Larry,

    I used the word cook which is a bit of slang for time in the press, sorry about that. As Scott indicated I do use a heat press but I have heard that people have dye-sublimated Corian in an oven. I believe they use a piece of heavy plate which is placed on top of the paper to keep it in close contact with the Corian.

    When I take my Corian plaques out of the heat press I clamp them between two pieces of plywood or aluminum plates to keep them flat until the Corian cools down.
    .
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 01-11-2011 at 12:59 PM.

  14. #14
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    OK Thanks guys, that's what I wanted to know. I am looking at a Ricoh GX e3300n With Sawgrass Sublijet Inks. I have a heat press. I like some of Keith's ideas for products.
    Epilog Legend EXT36-40watt, Corel X4, Canon iPF8000 44" printer,Photoshop CS6, Ioline plotter, Hotronix Swinger Heat Press, Ricoh GX e3300 Sublimation

  15. #15
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    I look forward to playing around with some samples... Thanks for the info.

    AL

    Edit: 2 Hours later and I wanted to update this post.... My press was on and at 7 PM when I made this post and I was Sublimating tags... So when I finished I remembered the box of Samples I got from Granger... 1/4 inch hard Poly... I let the press cool down to about 350 setting the temp. Tried a piece with a 5, 10, and 15 min pressing.... WOW.... I was pleased.... Even flipped one over and did the back with the colored side pressing against blank newsprint I get by the roll. 1st side looked good as did side 2....

    I look forward to more playing around..... This looks like the answer to the 1/4 inch tags I have been trying to get from FRP.... I now need to get my Vacuum Sled built for my CarveWright... I am going through lots of double sided tape...

    Today, I also found a Sublimation Coating Company in the Midwest that is interested in coating my .080 Aluminum Tag Blanks for Sublimation.... Rattle Can's of Digi-Coat would have worked too..... I am not setup to do them in a clean place with a oven.....

    I have been doing Sublimation since 2007 and never really thought out of the box.... Always thinking I needed to be a 400 degrees and 1 min for most of what I do... Doing Sublimation at a lower temp.... Interesting....

    Thanks Keith !!!!

    AL
    Last edited by AL Ursich; 01-11-2011 at 9:01 PM.
    1 Laser, 4 CarveWrights, Star 912 Rotary, CLTT, Sublimation, FC7000 Vinyl, 911 Signs, Street Signs, Tourist Products and more.
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