need help choosing a machine

[Mike Package]

I see this a lot, meaning guys who make guitars on CNC's, is there that big a market for custom Guitars, just wondering. My dad who is retired use to make handmade Portuguese Guitars.

I don't want to make generalizations or jump to the conclusion that because one item sells another will - I offered up that very particular example because I know that I sold a few and essentially could sell them faster than I could make them even though it wasn't even a goal of mine. Good problem to have right??

[Justin Cavender]

I think the fine line automation kit is the way to go for me.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Justin,

Since I threw out FLA as an option I must give you some warnings.

1. The owner is a hobbiest owner. That means if you order parts from him, expect it to take 1.5x longer than it should. Be patient as long as they aren't lying to you. Remember to pay with a credit card and not from a bank account via Paypal. You can always do a charge back if things go south.

2. These designs are typically very experimental. I don't think there is anyone that has been using a FLA machine under regular use for years. That means things could go wrong in the future. It's a fairly basic design so fixing it shouldn't be a huge issue, but remember that these designs are not necessarily 100% proven.

3. Support is a combination of community and company based.

4. The plans, instructions and BOM are never 100% accurate or complete.

[Justin Cavender]

Does anyone know if mech three comes with the pci card?

[james mcgrew]

mach 3 is run directly from the hard drive, wincnc ( on all my machines ) uses a pci card (daughter board) making it autonomus of the hard drive, it is a much more industrial controller. that said mach is a good controller and is widely accepted. with mine i can design be ion live support and teach while the cnc is running, mach will not do this, i am unsure as to machs future after all computers are 64 bit

[Justin Cavender]

but does it come with the pci card (daughter board) ? or is that spld seperatly

[Mike Heidrick]

There is no pci card for mach. It is software only. My comp uses my parallel port to interface Mach with my G540 Gecko.

[james mcgrew]

justin, many years ago i built my own verticle sliding saw, needed it for my cabinet business yet could not afford it at the time, since then i have purchased all of my equipment using quality and industrial as a standard for purchasing, there are quite a few here on sawmill creek who have been to my shop and can attest to this. i can really relate to what you are trying to achieve and am sensing you may (and i could be wrong !! my hope is i am) not have some neccesarry engineering and motion control experience that one will need for a cnc build. that said it can be done by a complete novice (and again i am not saying you are one) it just takes a lot of patience and a desire to learn some subjects one would not normally want to learn, it is going to take a decision as to whether some months to possibly a bit longer to build one verses a purchase with support and some training has a value. like i said "one can save too much money". to cap it off once the machine is built then starts the cnc operation learning curve. and friends who will invest in this teaching time are limited. this is why the aspire and sawmillcreek forums are so valuable

my hope is not to discourage you and possibly help prevent what can be a dissapointing adventure, all who try this are not successful, many of these kits are in garages uncompleted, how do i know, with my exposure on the web and forums i get calls from many who actually think i can do this for them, and the answer is no. good luck and hopefully you can make an informed decision that will lead to your success.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

My recommendations based on personal experience.

1.
Go with Windows/mach3 as controller. Its universal and has many add-ons. The most important is the Probe and the 360 controller. These are time savers. I originally went the touch screen rout but its not what it is cracked up to be for jogging and setting up. The 360 controller is Awesome. I use it to activate my Z depth probe, so I am always a single button away from setting my tool height.

2.
Get or build the most rigid machine you can afford. Rigidity in a CNC is more important than any other aspect save for size. Which takes me into the next point?

3.
Purchase or build the largest machine you have funds and space for. You will always need a larger table size in the future. So the larger the table the more you can do.

4.
Don’t purchase a CNC that locks you into CAD or CAM software.

5.
Whatever you think the price is for getting into CNC you need to add an additional 50%. Even more if you go DIY. DIY is great but I am now on my 4th and 5th builds. I could have had a very large and expensive turnkey machine had I gone that rout from the beginning. However if I were doing it all again I would still go DIY because I have learned sooo much and really know my machines and what I want out of a machine.

6.
If you want to do metal work build or purchase a CNC mill. If you want to do wood work purchase or build a CNC router. Trying to combine a machine that does both, will affect the output of one or the other.

7.
Always go with a dual axis main drive. This will normally be the X or Y axis. (the axis that’s not the Gantry) Try to stay away with timing belts and go with a Dual motor system if you can. This will make for a fast yet rigid build.

8.
Normally I would say go with a all metal machine. But that said my last build is made from particle board and it has more rigidity than many Aluminum builds I have seen. The best way to go here is to look at reviews and to try hands on for both DIY and turnkey machines.

9.
Set your expectations. CNC machines are not magical devices. They won’t just spit out parts. You will spend a lot of time in your CAD and CAM software, at least initially. Expect some CAD software learning curves. Also the parts put out by your CNC will rarely be perfect and ready for finishing.

10.
Take a person’s personal experience list J with a grain of salt. What you want out of a CNC may not be the same as any other individual out there.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Some notes on Mach3 and parallel port

If you are going to use a desktop machine I feel Mach3 and the parallel port is the best way to go. It’s economical, fast, and with good CAM software, very productive. It’s also somewhat universal so you won’t be locked into any software other than Windows OS. If you don’t have a built-in parallel port you can get and Express or PCI card.

If you are building your own PC then I would look at the Intel Classic Series mother boards. I used the DG41AN for my controller system. In addition to the built-in Parallel port I added a 2nd parallel port for controlling a second G540 for doing some real crazy stuff in the future.

[Carol Reed]

"Normally I would say go with a all metal machine. But that said my last build is made from particle board and it has more rigidity than many Aluminum builds I have seen."

Wow! That is a really interesting comment. I'd like to hear more about that. In which areas of the machine do you find that to be true?

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

I have absolutly no movement on the X and Y Axis on my particle board build. The areas I have probles with is my (current) Router Mount. I am less than satisfied with it as its not exactly Square and it has flex. I will eventualy go back to my Festool Mount as soon as I get up the nerve to rip out the electronics so I can use my Super PID.

The other problem I have with play is the Plastic Leadscrew nuts. They just dont hold up. I have used the ones from CNCRouterParts and Dumpster CNC. Unfortunatly those are what is used in many of the aluminum builds. Bottom Line they wear and begin to add slop. The Dumpster CNC lead nuts are a little better as they have a spring that keeps tension. The CNCRouterParts leadnut uses an O ring.

When I designed my particl board CNC I used the tortion box and I beam logic. Its quite ridgid. One of the orgininal problems I had was that it was too ridgid and did not take router crashes too well as there was no give so it broke or bent things. The latest design uses positive stops so if I crash one end or the other Is the motor that gives. on the Z it has a positve stop on the up direction but it can still tear up things if I crash it into a part or clamp. Normaly its the bit that gives or breaks.

Here it is with the original Festool mount. this particular vid has the pen attachment mounted.


All that said I am working on a larger metal build thats something inbetween a Joes CNC and a MechMate. I want to build a CNC that can hold 2 or more routers or possible a tool changer.