Mail Order or "Local"

[John Bailey]

As a newly retired guy building a new shop, I'm in the market for a bandsaw, planer, jointer, drill press and cyclone. Having worked almost entirely with hand tools in the past, I'm not too familiar with the value of the different brands of machinery. The Grizzly's seem to be the best in price, and they seem to be the same machines as other vendor's, with minor differences. My closest "local" store is 180 mi. away. I can pick up General and General International there. However, the price will be between $302 and $626 more for the General and General International, depending on whether or not I decide to make a field trip to pick up Grizzly machines, which is about 1200 mi. round trip, and forego the shipping. The General International machines seem to be put together a bit better - cast iron wheels on the bandsaw, longer bed on the jointer, etc. - but I wonder if it is really worth the difference to go "local." Any advice?

John

[Mike Circo]

Well, 180 miles is hardly "local" but...

A good local company is worth its cost. My examples: My local Woodcraft swapped two Jet bandsaws then a Jet for a Delta eventually until I got one that didn't break or cut poorly (EXCELLENT service by them). Each swap took all of 15 minutes and I got to talk with some fellow woodworkers. They also ordered my jointer, notified me when it came, checked it out for damage/issues and helped load it in my van. I got to pick it up on my schedule, not theirs.

Shipping really big stuff is a hassle. If you have the time and desire to coordinate all the steps and proper trucks and handling issues, AND the risks of damage by ham-fisted handlers, then long distance delivery is okay. Just be prepared to invest extra time in assuring all is well.

Caviet. I work full time and am a single parent of two active teens. My time is of the utmost value. Having quick and easy assistance with all aspects of my purchase were very important to me.

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi John

I almost always buy local when possible. However, "local" for you doesn't seem to be much better than mail order. It is all going to boil down to service after the sale. The best price in the world is no good if the service people fall down on the job. The same goes if they are nice but can't get the parts you need. If I were in your position, I think I would go with mail order, although for larger machinery, be prepared for what the trained baboons of the common carriers will do to your boxes. In either case, it seems to me that you will have to do some prep work for delivery whether you get it yourself or have it delivered, so again, I think you might as well go mail order.

Good luck with it.

Bill

[Doug Shepard]

Well I'm guessing that the Grizzly outlet you're referring to is in Missouri. I just checked and they have 4.225% sales tax, which you're going to have to pay if you purchase it there. If you go mail order, there's the shipping costs, but no sales tax (unless you're abnormally honest and report a Use Tax on your state tax return). Just one more factor to consider.
There's a lot to be said for local sellers if you run into problems or setup issues. Most buys go off without a hitch and don't need the local support. The shipping can also be a hassle, but most of the time that's pretty idiotproof too. Depends on who you buy from and what carrier they use. My PM66 TS was delivered via FedEx Liftgate Service and couldn't have been simpler, but I can imagine the headache involved if something was wrong and I had to ship it back. If you're torn on the local vs. mail-order issue for support reasons, of the tools you've got listed, I'd concentrate on the heavier (the ones that cost the most to ship back) pieces or the ones that may need more setup support (joiner & maybe bandsaw). The others aren't likely to need much in the way of setup help.

[John Bailey]

Mike,

While 180 mi. seems to be a hike, I drive through that area often, have stopped in the store a time or two, and have begun to start a working relationship with one of the salesmen. So, although it's a long drive, it's the best I'm going to do, and I can pick the machines up personally with some of the advantages you mention.

John

[Keith Christopher]

I always buy local when possible because I want to support local business that support me.

[Darren Ford]

John, as an alternative to Grizzly, you might look for a ShopFox dealer. They are generally smaller businesses and you might have one closer and not know it. ShopFox is a brand of Grizzly, with a dealership network. General consensus is ShopFox is a slight step up from Grizzly and usually has double the warranty of the equivalent Grizzly version.

[Tom LaRussa]

ShopFox is a brand of Grizzly, with a dealership network.

It is?

[Ted Shrader]

John -

I'm with Bill on this one. I try to buy locally if at all possible. Helps to keep the businesses in place for continued shopping. However, if there is nothing you want available locally, the choice is out of your hands.

In this case, since you are making a pretty big buy of multiple machines at once, look look at the trip as a vacation, then the trip costs won't weigh against the shipping. You will have the opportunity to touch the machines you are considering and inspect the ones you are actually getting prior to taking delivery. (Applies to both General and Grizzly.)

Have fun choosing,

Ted

[Tom LaRussa]

My closest "local" store is 180 mi. away. I can pick up General and General International there. However, the price will be between $302 and $626 more for the General and General International, depending on whether or not I decide to make a field trip to pick up Grizzly machines, which is about 1200 mi. round trip, and forego the shipping.

Hi John,

This is JMHO, but I'd quickly narrow it down to two possibilities:

[1] Grizzly (and have it shipped or wait for the spring thaw)

[2] Get the General -- not the General International.

My reasoning:

If you are choosing based on price, then simply look for the best deal for your money, which is Grizz. I (and many others here) have the 14" G0555 Ultimate Bandsaw and simply love the thing. You'll also find many very happy owners of late-model Grizz jointers and table saws on this forum. I don't know that Gen Int'l will give you much more bang for the buck than Grizz, and their customer service is really quite good.

On the other hand, if you want top quality, then skip over the Chinese-made General Int'l and go for the real General, i.e., the ones made in Canada. From everything I've heard the real General products are up there in quality with the best Euro machines.

BTW, it must be pretty scenic in your area, eh?

[Harish C. Mathur]

I know that I am bucking the trend... But I prefer to go mailorder when I can. Particularly for big purchases. For example, I bought my powermatic 66 from Tool Crib. They matched the best price I could find on the net (I don't remember the price... but I think it was a couple of hundred less than buying locally), no sales tax and shipping to my door was free. The delivery company had a lift gate and moved the boxes to exactly where I wanted them in my shop). Saved me the hassle of finding help to get the saw or arrange for delivery.

The point on being able to get local service is a good one. If you have a problem, it is nice to be able to call. However, in my case the saw was missing parts and the wooden table had a big knot that had popped out of it. This was not due to shipping. I called PM and they shipped me the missing parts and a new table. But service will vary from company to company.

I have a few Grizzly tools and have been happy with them... But there are a lot of varying opinions on them. Have fun.

[Chris DeHut]

One thing that seems to rattle around my brain when making large machine purchases is service.

Where can you get service parts?

Does the company have a good track record of providing service parts?

How does their warrenty policy work? Do I have to send them the broken part and wait for the replacement?

When it breaks, do I have to fix the machine under warrenty, or does the company have a service center I can take the machine too for repair?

Sorry to add confusion to the purchase decision, but these items are just as important as most of the other features we look at in a machine or tool.

Chris DeHut

[John Bailey]

Darren,

I've seen the Shop Fox brand much closer to where I live. I've only seen the smaller equipment and the shops are not full-fledged woodworking stores. They are usually a general hardwarestore that doesn't really offer a full range of services. I would have to special order a 17" bandsaw, for instance, and I haven't seen any floor model planers or jointers. I usually just see a 14" bandsaw and benchtop planers and jointers. I'd like to be able to see a wide range of possibilities. BTW, I'm in Northern Lower Michigan, maybe someone knows of a closer shop.

John

[John Shuk]

I have family in Elk Rapids and I think there is an equipment dealer in Traverse city. My uncle is an accomplished woodworker but i'm not sure where he buys.

[Mark Blumer]

John,

As a fellow Michigander (I not only know where East Jordan is, I have been there!), I can recommend two places to look at ww machinery. Both of them have an excellent selection and reasonable prices. Sometimes you can beat them on the internet and sometimes not but it is nice to be able to see the products up close and sometimes even compare competitive brands side by side (I was able to do that when I picked out my floor standing mortiser).

The first is in Grand Rapids and is called Cabinet Makers Supply Co, on 29th street. They have a huge selection of tools including General.

The second is Johnsons Workbench in Charlotte (about 15 miles south of Lansing). Johnsons is where I bought my PM66 saw, and my Delta 15" planer. They too have a huge selection and they are also a hardwood lumber mill that has been around for over 100 years. They also have the added advantage that if you choose to go there, you will be within 20 miles of my house and could stop by for a cup of coffee and some show and tell.

Mark Blumer (East Lansing, MI)