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Thread: Home Theater surround sound setup advice needed

  1. #16
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    You're getting into an area that can cause controversy--many people claim wire is wire and that in double blind tests people can't tell the difference between uber-high end wire and coat hangers. It is even worse because there are undoubtedly companies out there that make a lot of money selling snake oil claiming vast improvements.

    I think I can hear a difference in my system, so I spent some money on wire. Maybe it's placebo effect. Maybe it's real. Either way, I tend to think it was worth it for my system and my ears.

    So, what I'd counsel is getting/borrowing some "better" wire. Listen to your system, then run the better wires across your living room and see if you can hear a difference. If you can, and it's worth it, replace the wires in the wall. If not, you won't have lingering doubts.

    Even pre-DTV, a lot of TV shows were surround sound over the air. With HD, and even SD, you should find a lot of programming that will use the 5.1 modes. I'm assuming you will hook up your CATV box to your receiver using HDMI or digital optical/coax. Just make sure your set top box is set to output surround sound over the digital output, rather than PCM, and your receiver should do the rest if surround is available.

  2. #17
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    Larry,

    With what you are trying to do, the 16ga will be fine....i say that assuming that it is not all oxidized since it is 12 years later.

    And yes most tv channels will be broadcasting in 5.1 these days...and if not, your receiver (avr) will handle the switching without you even getting involved.

    Someone said earlier that you might be fine eliminating the center channel and doing a phantom CC....that is fine advice for someone without a center channel, but since you already have one...then it is nothing that pertains to you.

  3. #18
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    Anticipating the next question might be concerning buying HDMI and/or other cabling...when it comes to buying cables....monoprice.com is your friend here.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Morton View Post
    Anticipating the next question might be concerning buying HDMI and/or other cabling...when it comes to buying cables....monoprice.com is your friend here.
    I second this. Monoprice is a great place for cabling and also any adapters or mounting things you need. I don't know how their price is so low for such high quality cables.

  5. #20
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    I think I am pretty well set with HDMI cables. However I am planning on getting a wall plate like this to connect the surround speakers. It uses banana plugs, but I THINK that those are not required and that the connection can be made by just wrapping the wire around a post and tightening the connector kinda like the connector on the receiver. Is that correct? Would the banana plugs be a good idea anyway? I am assuming that they could be attached to both ends of the speaker wire so that they could be attached to the receiver in the same manner as the wall. That would require 4 banana plugs per speaker connection.
    Larry J Browning
    There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand binary and those who don't.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Morton View Post
    Someone said earlier that you might be fine eliminating the center channel and doing a phantom CC....that is fine advice for someone without a center channel, but since you already have one...then it is nothing that pertains to you.
    I said it, and I'll stand by it. The Cerwin Vegas he has will outperform anything made by Technics. I think he'd be far better off relegating the free Technics center channel to the trash and going phantom center. Larry, give it a listen both ways and see what you think. If you leave the Technics in, it means 90% of the sound will be coming from the worst performing speaker you have in the front. Correct me if I'm wrong Tim, but didn't you suggest the center channel would be your first upgrade?

  7. #22
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    I looks to me like there are 2 styles of in-ceiling speakers, round and rectangle, The difference seems to be that the round ones have the tweeter in the center of the woofer, while the rectangle ones have it offset from the woofer. Is one style considered better than the other?
    Larry J Browning
    There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand binary and those who don't.

  8. #23
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    I probably will try it both ways as you suggest. I am thinking that I may not be able to tell any dramatic difference. I have already said that I am no audiophile. But what I have not said is that my main goal here is to get that surround sound effect where I should be able to hear a jet plane flying from front to back or a bullet whizzing by. I won't be playing any source at a high volume, I just want it to sound "nice", not "superb".
    Larry J Browning
    There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand binary and those who don't.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Browning View Post
    I looks to me like there are 2 styles of in-ceiling speakers, round and rectangle, The difference seems to be that the round ones have the tweeter in the center of the woofer, while the rectangle ones have it offset from the woofer. Is one style considered better than the other?
    I have always thought of "in-ceiling" to be round, and the tweeter mounted in the center. And i have thought of "in-wall" to be rectangular.

    As for the tweeter being in the center vs being off set in the rectangle, sound quality is generally always going to be better with the tweeter in the center of the woofer. Just make sure that you are getting a true "tweeter" and not some "whizzer cone" Look for a 3/4" or 1" tweeter...and 5 1/4 or larger woofer.

    There is no reason that i can think of to choose one over the other....maybe if you describe your seating arrangement and room configuration??

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Browning View Post
    I probably will try it both ways as you suggest. I am thinking that I may not be able to tell any dramatic difference. I have already said that I am no audiophile. But what I have not said is that my main goal here is to get that surround sound effect where I should be able to hear a jet plane flying from front to back or a bullet whizzing by. I won't be playing any source at a high volume, I just want it to sound "nice", not "superb".
    Properly placed speakers set to the correct levels should give you all the "fun" you want.

    As for the phantom cc effect, it is a good solution, and i glossed over it earlier so as to keep the topic on point and not to confuse the issue. Buying Home theater components can get very overwhelming as you can tell...and that just seemed to be something worth putting off until later since it did not affect your purchase of other components. But yes eric is correct in saying that your front L+R speakers are probably vastly superior to the CC you currently have.

  11. #26
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    Tim, I have been truly overwhelmed with all this. But today I have come to a decision. I am going with the Yamaha 10" subwoofer ($97.97+free shipping) and the Micca 8" round ceiling speakers ($34.95X2+free shipping) Total $167.87. I know this is not what you and others have advised, but in the end, I would not feel comfortable with myself for spending more than that on what for me is such a luxury. Plus, I also believe that the extra sound quality I might get by spending hundreds more would probably be wasted on me anyway.

    Thanks to everyone who tried to help me. I truly do appreciate it. It may still be a few weeks or even months before I pull the trigger on all this, but I will report back here to let you know how it all turned out.

    Again, thanks to everyone.
    Larry J Browning
    There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand binary and those who don't.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric DeSilva View Post
    I said it, and I'll stand by it. The Cerwin Vegas he has will outperform anything made by Technics. I think he'd be far better off relegating the free Technics center channel to the trash and going phantom center. Larry, give it a listen both ways and see what you think. If you leave the Technics in, it means 90% of the sound will be coming from the worst performing speaker you have in the front. Correct me if I'm wrong Tim, but didn't you suggest the center channel would be your first upgrade?
    I've never heard any phantom anything that didn't sounds weird to me. Out of phase kinda weirdness.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Browning View Post
    Tim, I have been truly overwhelmed with all this. But today I have come to a decision. I am going with the Yamaha 10" subwoofer ($97.97+free shipping) and the Micca 8" round ceiling speakers ($34.95X2+free shipping) Total $167.87. I know this is not what you and others have advised, but in the end, I would not feel comfortable with myself for spending more than that on what for me is such a luxury. Plus, I also believe that the extra sound quality I might get by spending hundreds more would probably be wasted on me anyway.

    Thanks to everyone who tried to help me. I truly do appreciate it. It may still be a few weeks or even months before I pull the trigger on all this, but I will report back here to let you know how it all turned out.

    Again, thanks to everyone.
    Have you actually listened to that sub woofer? I went in thinking I was going to buy some expensive 12" and after listening to everything they had I wound up with a 10" Athena (some brand related to Infinity). It was the smoothest, deepest sounding sub the store had at the time. It wasn't the cheapest or most expensive but it certainly sounded the best to my ears. The others sounds kind of clunky or farty.

    Make sure and break in your stuff too if you want it to sound its best. Speakers right out of the box don't always sound so great. You can use test CDs or just crank up stuff with a wide frequency range. I spent a month leaving the CD player on repeat while I was at work alternating between Metallica, Crystal Method, and some test tracks.

  14. #29
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    A phantom center channel is about as easy a signal to image as you can get--both L & R get the same signal. You should have no phase issues if your L & R are properly phased. In fact, I'd argue that putting in a "real" center channel is a good way of mucking up your image. If you think about the cancellation effects from combining two sources, think about how much more complex the situation becomes when you have three.

    Back in my HT days, I ran some fairly extensive listening tests with my front speakers. I ran my L & R speakers, which were top of the line for the manufacturer, with both of the two center channels they then had in their line up and with a virtual center channel from my HT processor. All speakers used at any given point were vertically bi-amped with individual stereo amps as identical (same year, same model) as you can realistically get. After all that, I sold the center channels and stuck with the phantom.

    That said, you will get strange effects if you have people sitting well off axis. But I'd argue that you're going to get strange effects with people that far off axis anyway.

    But, like I said, take my advice with a grain of salt, since I ultimately ditched the whole HT thing and just went back to two channel. I can still get lost in a good movie, and the HT experience doesn't save a bad movie.

  15. #30
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    Larry,

    I will try one more time to talk you out of that subwoofer..it seems you like amazon and want to keep it under $99 shipped...here is another option. i just woudn't hold much faith in that yamaha playing LF effects.

    http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10-...591292&sr=1-20

    and if you could just up the ante a tad...

    http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-43...6591517&sr=1-2

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