Home Theater surround sound setup advice needed

[Larry Browning]

Hello, again. I am still working on my home theater setup. I am still struggling with selecting speakers. I have had another thought. Last time you heard from me I had decided to get the 10" BIC America subwoofer $149. I had been considering the Polk 10" sub for $99. So I got to thinking that if I went with the Polk I might be able to swing a new center speaker too. The conventional wisdom seems to be that the 2 most important speakers in a HT setup are the center speaker and subwoofer. I know that the center speaker that I have is a real weak spot in my setup. So I started shopping for a decent center speaker. I found a Cerwin-Vega VE-5C for $79 and a Polk for $71. However it tuns out that the Polk will not fit into my cabinet.
The CV looks to me like a good choice, but I thought I would run it by you guys. So what do you think of this idea?
I guess I should have expected that my budget would have to be extended a bit. It always does!

[Tim Morton]

i vote "Like it"!!

[Larry Browning]

I was hoping you would say that! I am thinking that I will probably pull the trigger on all this stuff sometime next week. I will let you know when it is all setup.

[Jim Becker]

I've been very pleased with the Onkyo HT receiver I bought a couple years ago, although at the time, it was only available with two HDMI inputs. (I'm using a switcher to get around that since I added an AppleTV recently) That particular Onkyo setup was a full HT kit with speakers and a DVD player. I used the speakers, although they are not as elegant as some other systems would have been, and gave away the DVD player since I also bought a BlueRay player.

Yea, a number of TV shows...and many, many commercials ...are in surround sound.

[hank dekeyser]

I'm a little late to the party but I still got 2 cents--

First and foremost - Build your own speakers - PERIOD - www.partsexpress.com or www.mcmelectronics.com fro higher -end components www.madisound.com
I've been building my own speakers forever (30 years or so) best bang for the buck. I'd put my home made stuff up against anything, yes anything.

Use a center channel - of better quality - you can always use the TV speakers for CC but I wouldnt
Check out the powered subwoofer kits on parts express site - bigger is generally better IF yo uhave th epower to control it - 10" or 12" sub will do fine. play around w/ the placement befor you drill hole in the floor for wire - depending on the room "corner loading" can be a huge bonus or a garbled boom.
16 gauge wire is more than enough for your use - I recommend 12g for the sub
I don't have an opinion on the receiver, I have a Marantz SR8000 that does what I need it to.
In-wall or ceiling speakers work very well for surround / rear speaks - If in ceiling try to keep them away from firing straight down at your seating position and not too close to the back wall- I find 12-18" works well.
In-wall speaks you want to be close to ear level when seated. side wall or rear wall is personal preference -
remember that your receiver will have adjustments for all the speaker levels- so if you have speakers that arent in the "ideal" location, you can compensate for it.

You can ask 20 people what to buy and you can get 20 different answers. Do your research, THEN decide which to purchase. If you think a better receiver is what you need , then get it. Same for speakers. PERIOD No one has ever said "gee I wish my stereo didnt sound so good"

Google is your friend and you will find a wealth of knowledge - you just need to seperate the Hype from fact, and the true knowledge from half-wits -good luck w/ that

FYI- I have over 20 years exp doing home installs and car-fi

[Larry Browning]

Ok, I pulled the trigger yesterday. Here is the list of what I got.
Onkyo HT-RC270 Receiver
Cerwin-Vega RE20 Main Front speakers (I already owned these)
Cerwin-Vega VE-5C Center Channel
Micca M-8C 8 inch In-Ceiling Surround speakers (These arrived yesterday)
Polk PSW10 Powered Subwoofer (Cherry finish)

I will be installing the surround speakers this weekend. I have a question about this.
These are going into a vaulted ceiling which has about 8 inches of blown in insulation on it. I want to minimize insulation lose, so I bought 2 large plastic salad bowls to place over the hole I will be cutting in the ceiling. I am going to cut a small hole in the bowl to run the speaker wire through and then put insulation back over the top of the bowl. Will that cause any problems with the speaker performance?

[hank dekeyser]

How large is large? The salad bowl is a good idea, I would recommend a method of fastening the bowl either through the speaker mount or from above w/ silicone to the drywall. DOing this will help to eliminate the bowl rattling or bouncing from the sound pressure of the speaker. (no need to drill a hole for the wire) My personal preference is to make a box out of foam and fasten it to the joists w/ fender washers (only takes a couple) or get foam coolers from the local thrift store (or wherever you can find them) and pile insulation over them. If you dont have access to the attic plastic over chicken wire works well also (plastic goes to the insulated side)
Alot of people dont like the CV center channel cuz the tweeters, I like them, I think you'll be very pleased w/ the center and sub you chose. Do a google search for subwoofer placement tips. You may be amazed at the difference it makes where you locate it in the room.

When the install is complete, don't forget to go through the speaker set-up for your receiver- You don't need to buy a fancy shmancy set-up disc either - Any of the Star Wars movies and many others have the LUcas Film (THX) sound set-up that walks you through all the steps. There is a video set-up section also - I don't remember but it may be available to download ?
Have fun and enjoy your new theatre - TV will never be the same

[Bryan Morgan]

When the install is complete, don't forget to go through the speaker set-up for your receiver- You don't need to buy a fancy shmancy set-up disc either - Any of the Star Wars movies and many others have the LUcas Film (THX) sound set-up that walks you through all the steps. There is a video set-up section also - I don't remember but it may be available to download ?

The Incredibles DVD has a decent THX optimizer.

[Larry Browning]

The receiver has a setup feature with a microphone that is supposed to do a really good job of speaker setup. I am going use that. I am sure it will do a fine job. I think the center speaker will be waiting on me when I get home tonight. And the Receiver is scheduled to be here tomorrow. Just in time to get it all set up over the weekend. Looks like the sub won't be here until the end of next week. Oh, well, I guess I will be able to really judge how much difference the sub makes.

BTW: I read somewhere that Gladiator is a really good movie to demo the surround sound. My son has it on blu-ray so I think I will borrow that from him and watch it to test out my new sound system.

[Larry Browning]

I was thinking that I might need a hole in the bowl to allow for better air movement. Is that not going to be an issue?
The styrofoam cooler sounds like an even better idea. It would have insulation of it's own. I could always use the bowls as actual salad bowls, or even better, find a use for them in the shop!

[hank dekeyser]

A hole in the bowl will allow insulation in. Very bad. A piece of insulation can work its way into the voice coil on the speaker. Most in-wall / ceiling speakers have a mesh covering the basket, I dont trust them. Placing something over the speaker in the ceiling accomplishes 2 things- keeps the insulation out, and provides a (small) enclosure for the speaker. Being that you have 8's I would opt for the styro cooler for a larger enclosure. too small and bottom end will suffer slightly. (not that it matters for the rears, but you dont want to crawl in the attic more than you need to) Gladiator is a good movie. The first 5-10 minutes of "SAving Private Ryan" WOW !!! save that one until the sub shows up. Twister, oldy but good. The 5th Element is a good goto for picture and sound. I'm sure there are many newer flicks also, what with bluray and all. I just don't keep up with it any more. I use a HTPC hooked up via HDMI straight to my Mits projector - 52" x 92" screen- It's all good

remember to re-calibrate once you settle on a location for the sub.

[Tim Morton]

Congrats Larry....now the easy part is done....

I think you did great with your selection.

As for your question about the blown insulation and how to deal with it. If it were me i would not add a bowl or cooler behind the speaker. The last thing you want to do is have something shift up there and cuase a vibration if it happens to rest on the basket of the speaker.

Think about all the sealed and ported speakers in the world with fiberglass insulation inside them...you can google it but i don't see any of those millions of speakers failing.

I other words...if the insulation is not going to physically call onto the cone...causing a vibration....then i would do nothing.

If it is going to fall on the cone, then you might have to build a little mini chicken coup up there and staple some old fabric of any kind to the frame to keep the insulation off the cone.

As for anything getting into the voice coil...not likely.

There is a website called "cult of the infinite baffle"...it focuses on subwoofers mounted (sans enclosure)...into attics and crawl spaces...lots of pictures...you should be able to find something along the lines of working around blow insulation.

Good luck!!!

[Myk Rian]

I got to this thread just today, so what I have to say is hindsight.
Ceiling speakers do not produce good surround sound. Speakers at ear level do.
A sub-woofer can be placed anywhere in the room. They are non-directional, so put it wherever you want to.

[Tim Morton]

I got to this thread just today, so what I have to say is hindsight.
Ceiling speakers do not produce good surround sound. Speakers at ear level do.
A sub-woofer can be placed anywhere in the room. They are non-directional, so put it wherever you want to.

its not only hindsight...but it factually incorrect

[Tim Morton]

Larry, having never installed speakers wherei had to deal with blown in insulation i did a little research and i like what i found...read this and tell me what you think..seems you do not need to build anything...just clear out the blown-in and replace with standard fiberglass batting....


I had no trouble doing it, but it is a little messy. I cut a smaller hole to get my hand through to try and push back as much insulation as possible, then I cut the big hole. Some insulation will fall through, just use a sheet or drop cloth. Then I cut some unfaced R30 batt insulation (2 strips, 24" long x 15" wide, crosswise between the 24" trusses) to make a 24" wide by 30" long section that I could push up through the hole (or add afterwards from the attic) and create a pocket for the speaker. You don't want to get blown insulation bits into the speaker. There also seemed to be much debate about the pros & cons of building "cabinets" for the speakers and it seemed like surrounding them with batt insulation seemed like what the manufacturer typically expected.