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Thread: Lie Nielsen or Veritas?

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Upstate South Carolina
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    I own tools from both companies and love the quality of both brands. However there is one obvious difference between the companies. That difference is delivering the product to the customer as quickly as possible once ordered. LV in Canada gets the product to me in South Carolina faster than LN in Maine can deliver them. I have never had an item delayed by a back order from LV but unfortunately it seems to be the standard delay for most all of my LN orders. Don't get me wrong I like the LN tools and will order from them again. However if LV and LN both sell similar items I will use LV because they have proven they can deliver on time. My new LV Scrub Plane should arrive today and I am looking forward to putting it to use.

    Ed

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Trussville, AL
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    3,589
    I may be totally off base, but just based on LN pulling out of the WC stores citing the high demand and subsequent backlogs as the reason makes me think that LV is more about tooling up to meet demand. It must be a tremendous amount of work to get production levels up and still keep their stellar quality. Seems like that would take a lot of the fun out of it but Rob Lee still seems to be a jolly fellow.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,469
    I have a travelling tool kit that I take along to woods shows or workshops when demonstrating joint making, such as dovetails. The aim is to lug along as few tools as possible (This would make a good topic for its own thread!).

    When it comes to the handplane, the one that goes with me is the LV LA Blockplane along with the knob/tote kit. This is an incredible Swiss Army Knife. The knob/tote transforms the ugly duckling into a graceful swan. Add a 33 degree bevel, and the resulting common angle (45 degrees) is good for all things, end grain and face grain. Or, take two blades, one at 25 degrees for shooting (it has a little extra mass and width for this task), endgrain and cross grain, and a second blade at 40 degrees (cambered for a 52 degree included angle), and you good for most smoothing tasks. And all in one tiny package.




    What other block plane can boast this range?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Coweta County, GA
    Posts
    485
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Looney View Post
    I own tools from both companies and love the quality of both brands. However there is one obvious difference between the companies. That difference is delivering the product to the customer as quickly as possible once ordered. LV in Canada gets the product to me in South Carolina faster than LN in Maine can deliver them. I have never had an item delayed by a back order from LV but unfortunately it seems to be the standard delay for most all of my LN orders. Don't get me wrong I like the LN tools and will order from them again. However if LV and LN both sell similar items I will use LV because they have proven they can deliver on time. My new LV Scrub Plane should arrive today and I am looking forward to putting it to use.

    Ed
    I figured out a solution to this. Order from Craftsman Studio. No tax, free shipping, and they seem to process and ship faster than LN does. Though, they don't carry every little thing on the LN website.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sunny California
    Posts
    512
    Quote Originally Posted by John A. Callaway View Post
    Order from Craftsman Studio. No tax, ...
    I agree with you John. Craftsman Studio and its owner are great. I've ordered many things from them/him as well. However, for those of us crazy enough to stay in CA, there is tax ... CS is a "brick n' mortar" store located in beautiful San Diego.
    A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.
    Ayn Rand

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bari - Italy
    Posts
    51
    I have the LV DX60 and it is a wonderful plane, very good machined and with a dead on straight sole.I'm thinking to buy also the LV low angle block plane because,as Derek says, it's a versatile tool and i like the brass knobs and wheels.I strongly suggest the LV also because their customer service is amazing.LN is a great company too and i think you wouldn't be disappointed.
    Take a look also to the new LV Small Bevel Up Smooth Plane: it would be interesting to review this plane and test it like a small smoother but also like a big block plane, thanks to the short sole, the lightness of the plane, the square sides to the sole,the 12° bed angle and the thumb recess on the sides of the body.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Coweta County, GA
    Posts
    485
    yep, and in your case, keep an eye on highland in Atlanta. they offer free shipping every once in a while...

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    53
    Just saw Lee Valley has a free shipping promotion, time to dig out that list!

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Teich View Post
    Just saw Lee Valley has a free shipping promotion, time to dig out that list!
    Dang. They always get me with that. . . Now, my opinion. The first really good planes I bought were Lie Nielsens, I love them, and all things being equal I will continue to buy those. That said, I think that the Lee Valleys have some very cool and innovative planes, and when I get around to getting a decent shoulder plane it will definitely be a Lee Valley, and man does that small plow plane look cool.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    College Park, MD
    Posts
    458
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Teich View Post
    Just saw Lee Valley has a free shipping promotion, time to dig out that list!
    Dang nammit. I just made a $200 order this morning!!!. 14 bucks in shipping I could have saved....

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    513
    I have to agree with Derek. I just got the LV standard block with just the front ball and extra blades. This little tool is a marvel of versatility. I just love the depth adjuster with only 1/8th turn of back lash. There is no other plane which I can easily set the blade to take a .002 shaving in a matter of seconds. I can use this one for smoothing where I used to have to bust my fingers with a scraper on difficult wood.

    As for hand size, I have very small hands, can't even pick up a football! Even so, I don't find the size of this plane to be an issue, but the heft of it sure is. I also have the LN 102 which is very small - its fine for very small work but pushing this tiny thing can be tough in hard wood. One's preference is really a matter of what you do and how you use it.

    Rob Lee said "avoid the standard block" but he didn't say why. I suppose that if all you do is shoot end grain, that is good advice, but I have had 50 degree blades and I don't like them - too difficult to sharpen, much preferring the 38 degree blade in the standard angle for working difficult wood. For me, this combination is perfect.
    Last edited by Harvey Pascoe; 09-16-2011 at 6:37 AM.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,469
    Rob Lee said "avoid the standard block" but he didn't say why. I suppose that if all you do is shoot end grain, that is good advice, but I have had 50 degree blades and I don't like them - too difficult to sharpen, much preferring the 38 degree blade in the standard angle for working difficult wood. For me, this combination is perfect.

    The usual recommendation for a block plane is to get a low angle type (12 degree bed) over a standard angle type (20 degree bed). The argument for this is that a low (included) cutting angle, typically 37 degrees, is the better choice for planing end grain. Further, it is always possible to increase the included angle of a Low Angle block plane, but one cannot decrease the included angle of the Standard Angle block plane.

    I have told this story before, so if you recognise it, have another drink while I tell it to those for whom it is new ...

    About 10 years ago I was in the market for a new low angle block plane. The choice for me was a new Stanley #60 1/2 (Made in England) or a new LN #102. This was not a difficult decision. I had hankered after the little LN for some time. Anyway, it was Friday, end-of-work, and pouring with rain. I was so keen to get to the store to have the #102 for the weekend that I braved the evening traffic and made it just in the nick of time before closing. They only had the one in the display window, and I grabbed it and headed home.

    The first shavings with the #102 were pure magic. And the plane never failed to delight me thereafter. Edges, end grain .. perfect. I marvelled at what a plane with a low cutting angle could do on end grain.

    Time went on and I ended up buying a LN 60 1/2. My other block plane at the time was a Stanley #65. It was a terrific performer but it felt too large in my hand. The #65 is about the same width as the LV LABP, which is why I did not consider this at the time. The #60 1/2 is a narrower plane. So there I sat in the livingroom with my three block planes on the coffee table, admiring them (which is what we all do, don't we? ) ... and then I noticed that the blade angle of the #102 was different to the other two ... higher. I put on my reading specs and looked more closely ... the number read "#103"! For years I had believed that the plane I had was a #102 and instead it was a #103 ...

    The moral of the story is that a standard angle plane is capable of excellent performance on end grain. It may not be quite a good .. potentially .. as a low angle block plane, but it is nearly as good. Plus the standard angle is much better on face- and edge grain than a low angle block plane, which is more susceptible to creating tearout in these areas.

    None of this invalidates what Rob recommends. The low angle block plane is better because it has a wider range. However it needs to be recognised that a common cutting angle in a block plane is a most useful addition to the tool list.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    238
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome Hanby View Post
    I may be totally off base, but just based on LN pulling out of the WC stores citing the high demand and subsequent backlogs as the reason makes me think that LV is more about tooling up to meet demand. It must be a tremendous amount of work to get production levels up and still keep their stellar quality. Seems like that would take a lot of the fun out of it but Rob Lee still seems to be a jolly fellow.
    Jerome the WC in Chattanooga and Atlanta (Alpharetta) sells LN.
    Last edited by Todd Hyman; 09-17-2011 at 7:11 AM.
    War Eagle!

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
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    513
    Well Derek, I have both the LN 102 and the LV standard block and they are both solid performers, but the LV standard is superior at smoothing which is what I bought it for. Its a little tough preventing the 102 from diving into some face grain.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
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    9,469
    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Pascoe View Post
    Well Derek, I have both the LN 102 and the LV standard block and they are both solid performers, but the LV standard is superior at smoothing which is what I bought it for. Its a little tough preventing the 102 from diving into some face grain.
    Exactly Harvey. This is why I emphasise the relevance of a common angle (as found in the standard block plane). It can do things that the low angle block plane is ill suited for. I can appreciate why some eschew block planes altogether, relying instead on a bench plane. For myself I would not want to be without a block plane or two. They offer maximum control, do good work and are pleasurable to use.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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