book case at "for friend" pricing. What do you think of this price?

[keith ouellette]

I have a friend that wants a built in book case/ entertainment center in the living room. Basically it is a 95" high and 155" wide space to fill. 16" deep

with a bead board back, small crown molding to ceiling, 2 -36" wide cabinets in the center under a 36" X 30" space for a tv with shelves above the tv and book shelves on each side from floor to ceiling. two wide drawers will be in between the cabinets and the tv shelf.

The cabinet cases, book shelf sides and shelves are going to be made of 3/4 birch plywood and the edges are going to be covered in select pine or poplar. Each shelf edge will have 1 3/4" wide trim on front and back for looks and to stiffen the shelve.
cabinet doors and drawers fronts are poplar.

All painted white.

I was going to tell them $2250. thats materials, labor and instal. If your friend gave you that price would you be happy?

[glenn bradley]

Sounds very reasonable. I would use a hardwood for the edging. Your softwood choices will dent and wear pretty easily. JMHO ;-)

[Paul Symchych]

I'd take two.

[keith ouellette]

Sounds very reasonable. I would use a hardwood for the edging. Your softwood choices will dent and wear pretty easily. JMHO ;-)

I wanted to use something harder for the edging and cabinet faces frames and doors but wanted to keep the price down for them. I am already bracing myself for the "we could buy a whole living room set for that price. Are you sure it cost that much? reaction.

[Joe Angrisani]

Keith wrote: "I am already bracing myself for the "we could buy a whole living room set for that price. Are you sure it cost that much? reaction. "
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Friends don't let friends buy junk...

[Joe Leigh]

Keith wrote: "I am already bracing myself for the "we could buy a whole living room set for that price. Are you sure it cost that much? reaction. "
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Friends don't let friends buy junk...

I nominate this for "post of the Week"

Oh, and that price sounds more than reasonable to me.

[Ray Newman]

"I am already bracing myself for the "we could buy a whole living room set for that price. Are you sure it cost that much? reaction."
--K.O.

And also remember the old saw: Do not do work for co-workers, friends, or relatives….

[Buck Williams]

I think a lot depends on the degree of "friendship" you have going on. If you can show your material costs, and explain the amount of your time that the job entails and present it as a fair deal for both of you, that's of course the best situation. Sometimes friends expect that friends should be willing to help out while expecting very little (in this case) monetary return. I guess you won't know until you propose it to your friend. You are after all adding value to his home, and will presumably be saving him from the hassle of a dealing with an installer who may or may not be prompt and reliable. Money and friendship can make for a difficult mix. As far as your $2250 number, I have no idea, all I know as a hobbiest remodeler, is that it always takes longer and costs more than I initially figured, and built-ins are even tougher.

[Victor Robinson]

My friends would scoff at that price (because most of them are 25-35 year old city-dwellers that don't mind melamine), so it depends on knowing your friends, their likes and priorities.

Now if MY friend gave me that price, I'd know it was good, but that's because I'm sort of a woodworker.

[John Grossi]

Keith, I built a similar entertainment center a few years ago for our home. I used poplar, birch plywood and we stained it. We did a few field trips to Amish country an hour away, saw these built from oak with a $5000.00 price tag. I figure I've got $1800.00 in mine. Hopefully $2250 covers all your costs.

[glenn bradley]

I am already bracing myself for the "we could buy a whole living room set for that price. Are you sure it cost that much? reaction.

The absolute proper response for that reaction, without anyone needing to get their feelings hurt, is "Great, that'll work better for both of us. You'll get what you want faster and I can concentrate on some other items I need to work on right now."

This is starting to have the ring of those (hopefully few) experiences in life where about a quarter of the way into it you are wondering how you EVER got into this. Walk away and remain friends (and happy).

[Karl Brogger]

My numbers come out to:

136 ft^3 of box at $17 per cu/ft. = $2317
two drawers at $110ea = $220 (w/ slab fronts)
for the beaded back - $400

Delivery/Installation assuming its unfinished, 7% - $205

For a grand total of $3145

[John TenEyck]

I've been faced with this same situation a few times now, since most of my first clients were former coworkers. My relationship got me the opportunity to bid on the job, but I always approach a project as a job and my colleague as a customer. As a prelude to any project I always told them that if they could find what they wanted in a store they should buy it because my price likely would be higher. A couple times that was the end of it - it was clear they thought I would work for cheap just because we were friends. But more often they said they had looked and couldn't find exactly what they wanted, or that they wanted me to build something that fit just right, matched an existing design or color, or solved some other need or problem. In the end, I bid what I thought was fair to us both. I did an estimate based on time and materials, and compared that to what was offered at Ethan Allen, etc. I'm sure I'm slow compared to folks who have to make their primary living doing this, but even with my modest but acceptable hourly rate my bids typically were lower compared to store bought, but not always. Never has anyone said no. Maybe I'm charging too little, but I think it's more likely that I eliminated the people who were hoping to take advantage of our friendship early in the process.

My advise is to be upfront on how you're going to bid the project, so you don't invest a lot of design time with no return. Your price seems way too low to me. Think about all your costs, how long it's going to take to install, etc. Go look at what is commercially available - which doesn't fit your friend's needs, but still gives a reference point. Pay yourself a reasonable hourly rate, add a contingency of at least 25% to cover all the stuff you're going to forget or not think you should charge for. Give your friend a formal, written quote, and require a down payment of 25 - 33% - and let the chips fall where they may.

Your friend won't think any less of you if he/she knows you expect to be paid for your skill, but you may think less of him/her if they are trying to take advantage of your friendship. Friends are friends, but business is business.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I think that is VERY reasonable. We recently shopped for an entertainment center for our living room. items much smaller than that went for more money.

IMO, if they ever hope to put a larger flat-screen TV in, that opening is a little on the small side.

[keith ouellette]

Thanks for the reply's and advice.
Karl: thanks for those price figures. That is about where I thought a pro might be on it except for the bead board. I may have figured a little low on that.
John F.: I think the same thin about the tv but it isn't there primary viewing area so they wanted to keep it smaller and wanted more storage.

I gave them the price. I added another $50 and made it an even $2300 and gave a good explanation of where the money was going. I explained how we could cut on materials and why it would be a bad Idea to do so. I also explained the size of the piece of "furniture" we were talking about because in fact it is rather large. At least in my opinion. I only talked to mrs. friend and she is going to talk it over with Mr. friend. It isn't something they really need but it would dress the room up. So far my guess is that its a go. Even though I am not going to make much at all for my time I really want to do it. I don't get to build much. Being painted it takes a lot of pressure off me so it will be kinda fun. Plus it fulfills a never realized dream of wanting to build book cases. I have done some small ones but nothing like this.

I can't wait to start cutting and take some pictures to show everyone.