Applying Darn Shellac

[Jim Eller]

For the life of me, I can not apply shellac. I have mixed one pound, two pound and three pound cuts and the results are always the same.

I have been trying to put it on with a rag, but can not seem to keep a wet edge. It always dries while wiping on and therefore becomes a bumpy mess.

I would really like to use this stuff but currently I find myself having to go back and sand it all off. FRUSTRATING!

I'm sure spraying would be better but it is still too cool outside and I don't have a spray booth.

Any suggestions on how to easily and correctly apply this stuff. Help!!

Thanks,
Jim

[glenn bradley]

Don't sand it off, wipe it off with rags soaked in DNA changing rags frequently. That being said, things that make applying shellac easy for me:
- make a pad out of cheesecloth wrapped tightly in soft cotton (like an old t-shirt).
- make sure the face or the pad is smooth and tight, no wrinkles.
- apply a 1lb (or thinner) coat as a sealer and let it dry (30 minutes does it where I live).
- do not go back over an area that you have already wiped; shellac dries too fast and you will get ridges, bumps, etc.
- sand any spots that need it (this is really rare as long as you resist the urge to go back over areas and "fix" something that doesn't look right.
- apply a 2 lb coat (I usually use another 1lb coat but others prefer thicker material).
- sand with 400, 600 or 0000 after this coat is dry depending on your wants.

Peter Gedrys is firing on all cylinders in this video: http://www.finewoodworking.com/subsc....aspx?id=29537

A relative of mine who shall remain nameless used to have a terrible time with shellac. He kept trying to treat it like a slow setting oil finish. It seemed impossible for him to wait for the next coat and NOT try to go back over an area. Once he got past that, all is well.

[Steven Hsieh]

I prefer brushing it on than wiping it with rag.



You don't need to sand to do it over, use denatured alcohol and wipe, redo again.

[Mark A Johnson]

I was fighting with the same trouble when dealing with shellac. No matter how I approached getting the finish on, it just would not level.

For starters what are you using for DNA. Since I'm use premixed shellac, I measure out the amount of finish I need, then I add Behlen Bekhol into the shellac I measured out. The Bekhol has a retarder blended into it, which gives you that extra time to get the finish layed down.

Then once I get enough coats of shellac, I'll let it set for a few days. After its dry, I will wet sand it with 600. Then I rub out my finish to the amount of sheen I want. I also us Behlen compounds, they just seem to work better for me then some of the other products I have tried.

Hope that helps, also Flexners book on Finishing is a good read.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Another source for info is Homestead Finishing - click on articles at the top - then look for padding shellac.

That's what I do. No muss, no fuss. The key for me is light coats, keep the pad in one hand and the squirt bottle in the other [be sure to turn away when squirting to reload - DAMHIKT]. Many light coats. NEVER NEVER re-pad - if it's screwed up, it's screwed up and trying to adjust only digs the hole deeper - just keep going. Subsequent passes will fix most problems.

With a surface of any modest size, by the time I've made the last pass, the starting course is dry, and ready for another run. I usually do 2 - 3 passes, then let it sit for an hour or so. If there are any visible problems, light sanding, but then go again. I rub it out to level it and get a consistant surface. Sometimes to satin, sometimes satin + wax, sometimes past satin to semi-gloss - whatever.

I think next time I'm gonna take a deep breath and brush on the first coat [I'm not much of a brush guy] to get a faster build, then continue with the padding.

YMMV.

[Larry Fox]

I'm sure spraying would be better but it is still too cool outside and I don't have a spray booth.

I don't think either will be a problem. I have sprayed shellac in some pretty cold temps and the only impact it had on it was that it slowed the evaporation of the alcohol which resulted in slower drying time. I spray well ventilated and bring it inside. Have to spray it light to avoid the blush going from environ to environ but other than that you should be good to go spraying. Best thing to do would be to call Jeff over at Homestead and talk to him as he is a weelspring of knowledge and very helpful.

[Prashun Patel]

Jim, don't despair. Finishing is hard for me, and even I have found that shellac can be easily applied. It's like Magic Eye. Once you get it, you'll wonder how you were ever able to NOT get it before... So, persist!!!

First, what are you applying it on? Large broad surfaces are hard to start with. Start with some small test boards - like 12" x 12". Use a 1.5# cut (approximately) or less to start. Put the shellac in a squeeze bottle. You will get the most mileage from a real 'rubber', but you can still get the same results with a regular blue shop towel. Take 1/4 of the sheet and fold it a few times. Squirt a little in the rag and swipe your piece. Don't squirt to make yr rag completely wet - just moist. At first, your rag will have about a quarter-sized wet spot so you'll only be able to wipe a thin line. Within a few 'charges', the rag will become mostly charged and you'll get a 1" - 2" wide band. You want it to go on moist - not wet. Don't rub, just swipe. Squirt again and swipe the next line. Don't worry about getting a perfectly overlapping edge. Don't worry about missed spots. Don't worry about going over the same spot more than once. When you get to the bottom, start again at the top. The coats are so thin, and cut so much that UNLESS YR RAG IS SOPPING WET you don't get drags or drips.

When yr rag starts to feel a little sticky when you wipe, stop.
You can repeat the session in 30 minutes or so - up to about 3 times. Then let it dry overnight. Then sand it with 320 and begin the regimen again.

Keep at it. I've found with shellac - as with wiping varnish - newbies (I put myself in this category) can make up for heavy hands, and lack of experience with the patience to apply many thin coats.

If you ever get drip marks this way, then take a DNA moistened rag and rub the mark until it disappears and becomes dull. Then squirt a tad bit of shellac on the spot, and swipe it to fix the dull spot.

Once you master the squirt-into-the-rag technique, you'll find that you're able to squirt directly on the piece, or even to dip and wipe because you understand how - and how much - to wipe. IMHO, if you aim to keep at shellac until it is easy and quick for you, you will give yourself a valuable and versatile tool that can be used on almost every project...

[Jim Eller]

WELL! What a wealth of information. But, I guess I wouldn't expect any thing less from folks on this site.

It's also gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know that I'm not the only one to go through this frustration.

I really appreciate the detailed help. I'll be buying a brush, doing the moist rag thing and getting my spray gun out. .....and of course, practice, practice, practice.

Thanks to all for the help.

Jim

[Casey Gooding]

One thing I don't recall seeing in the posts above is don't feel the need to sand after every coat. Especially with the first few coats, you want to make sure you get nice coverage. You will still get a smooth finish if you sand after the second or third coat.

[Howard Acheson]

Applying shellac with a rag as you might when applying varnish is the wrong way to go about it. The alcohol in shellac quickly evporates and you must not go over a previously wetted surface or you will develop snags and bumps.

For instructions on how to apply shellac go here: http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.com...g-Shellac.aspx

Two application methods are discussed. Brush can be used but personally I feel this is difficult until the finisher has developed the required techniques. Brushing is also almost impossible on large, flat surfaces. Padding is a much better way to apply shellac and is described in the article.

[Jim Eller]

Thanks Casey and Howard for the additional information. Nice link.

Jim

[Dee Gallo]

Jim,

I come from a painting and faux finishing background, so I prefer a bristle brush (the cheap white ones). The best advice I can give you is:

1. Go slowly but deliberately with the grain with as long a stroke as possible. Brushing too fast will make bubbles form and they are what give your surfaces bumps. But at the end of your stroke, it should still be wet enough to dust with the brush tips if needed.
2. Have good lighting so you can see a reflection - this will help you avoid bare spots or thick spots, which will entice you to go over it again and mess it up.
3. At the beginning and end of each stroke, the brush should be almost vertical, but then within an inch or two, lay it down to almost horizontal. This will help you avoid leaving a puddle at the beginning and end of strokes. Of course you also don't want to load the brush with too much shellac to begin with... don't dip more than a quarter of the brush, it will wick up.
4. If (more like when) a hair comes off the brush, just push the brush ends straight into the hair and it will be picked up by the brush so you can get rid of it without touching the board. Then quickly re-brush an extremely light stroke (just the tips) to smooth the direction of the stroke.
5. If your piece is really long (I do a lot of doors which are too long for one load strokes), let the stroke end by fading off to a rough shaped nothing and then lead up to the fade from the other direction to overlap. This will avoid a line.
6. It is a lot better to put many coats on than to leave shellac too thick in one coat. I don't start sanding until the 3rd coat. I prefer no-load sandpaper, 400 3rd coat, 600 4th coat, 800 final, which many think is overkill, but it feels like butter.

I think shellac is one of the most beautiful finishes out there, so good luck and keep trying!

cheers, dee

[Steven Hsieh]

I prefer a bristle brush (the cheap white ones).




Of course you also don't want to load the brush with too much shellac to begin with... don't dip more than a quarter of the brush, it will wick up.

Tap the brush in container.

4. If (more like when) a hair comes off the brush, just push the brush ends straight into the hair and it will be picked up by the brush so you can get rid of it without touching the board. Then quickly re-brush an extremely light stroke (just the tips) to smooth the direction of the stroke.

It means you are using a poor quality brush.
Your brush should NOT have any hairs coming out.
On new brushes, Tap the brush on your hand before using it. or better spin it.


5. If your piece is really long (I do a lot of doors which are too long for one load strokes), let the stroke end by fading off to a rough shaped nothing and then lead up to the fade from the other direction to overlap. This will avoid a line.

What brush size do you use?

[Dee Gallo]

Steven,

Yes, I prefer the cheapo White China bristle brushes. Shocking, isn't it? In fact I have some which are 10 years old and they are my favorites because I know exactly how they are going to behave. I like the small sized 2" or 2.5" flat, since it doesn't tire my hand and holds a good amount of shellac for its brushing time. When using a new one, you must expect shedding. They only use cheap glue to hold the bristles and the ferrule does little to hold them in other than shape the brush.

I know that most people like to use bigger brushes which hold more, but I can paint faster, cleaner and more accurately with the small ones. Big brushes are great for slopping on house paint, but I prefer not to ever drip or run or have to fix a bad paint or finish job. To each his own. I only have 50 years of painting experience, so I still have more to learn.

I do prefer a pad for applying certain finishes, but shellac is not one of them.

cheers, dee

[Jim Eller]

Thanks Dee and Steven for point, counter point.

I couldn't argue with either one of you or even enter an intelligent comment about "how to".

I think it's the "different strokes for different folks" thingy. If I find something that works for me, I stick with it. Heaven knows, I find enough stuff that doesn't work any way I try it.

Jim