1942 MOAK 32" "Special" Band saw restoration

[Van Huskey]

You have done a magnificent job, that saw is stunning!

[Bruce Page]

Brian, now I understand your first post and why you were annoyed about re-posting your build process. It is a lot of time & work to put up all of the pictures and text! (Again!)

But I’m sure glad you did! That is one of the best rebuilds that I have seen! Bravo!

PM me if you have pictures that you would like me to insert into the early posts.


Bruce

[Brian Weick]

Thank you Bruce & Van
How do you want me to do that? How come they are not showing for everyone else, but I can see them?

B,

[Jeff Bartley]

wow! wow! wow! great job! thanks for posting!

[Bruce Page]

How come they are not showing for everyone else, but I can see them?

B,

Brian, when I look at posts 2,3,&4 in edit mode all I see is broken link icons (see pic). I don’t see any other info like path, etc.

[Van Huskey]

Bruce, if Brian is OK with it you might add "restoration" in the title, this isn't getting the views it deserves and it may be because people think it is a question and not many people would know anything about this saw.

[Brian Weick]

Well,
Thread isn't the same if we skip the beginning, how do you want me to get those pictures to you? I can see what you mean, why I can see the pictures and you guys cant is beyond me, so lets get this fixed if it's ok with you Bruce? Van is write, it's turned into the restoration phase....that's cool with me.....great idea! Thanks Van!

If you can place 1942 before Moak and restoration at the end.....That should explain everything...

Tons of pictures to come as in move along with the Moak.......


Thanks you Bruce....

B,

[Bruce Page]

Brian, I sent you a PM.

[Don Morris]

Unbelievable, Wow, and many many Thanks for going to the great trouble of posting which has surely made a lot of other people as jealous as hell. Fabulous restoration of which you may be truly be proud.

[Van Huskey]

I kinda hate to ask since you have gone to so much trouble, do you have any specs on it? Max height of cut, weight, table size etc. Does it have Guidall guides?

[Robert Boyd]

Brian,

What manufacturer of VFD are you using? With the VFD it gives you the flexibility to cut metal also. I see it has Carter guides also. Beautiful job and money well spent. With the work you had done that should last another 100 years before another rebuild. I have a Silver 36 and the older saws are a beauty.

[Van Huskey]

I was guess you had an RPC based on the other machines you have, but if you are using a VFD are you concerned about the insulation on the motor. I personally would be paranoid using a VFD on a low speed direct drive motor like that, re-winding it wouldn't be cheap and you can't just run out to Grainger to get a replacement.

[Brian Weick]

Thanks for correcting the title Bruce- thumbs up!

Thank you Dan,

Van & Rob
All my 3ph machinery is run on YASKAWA VFD drives, no RPC .


I am using a YASKAWA VFD rated at 19.5 amps out designed for 220single phase input. The drive I am using protects the motor and itself if it sense variations in voltages or strain. The windings, yes I was concerned about this and bought a spike filter L350 between the drive and the motor. There was one small problem, it was the wrong type. I was running the motor at 5 hrtz to clean the wheel for the new rubber when I get to that and there was this god awful electrical smell and I could not for the life of me figure out where it was coming from, that was until I touched the L350 spike filter, nearly burned my hands. Come to find out after some research it is intended to protect the VFD , not the motor so I called my rep and told him what happened and what I found out and he felt awful and is going to knock off some money on the V1000 I am buying for my Oliver 88D ( that's on here as well).
I could have fried my VFD because the L350 has capacitors across the coils that should not be used between the motor and the VFD. There is another spike filter that I will be using, the correct model that is used between the VFD and the motor.
I ran my motor on the Moak band saw on 5 hertz after I removed the L350 to finish up what I was doing and the motor was room temperature, not even warm but I will not run the machine with out that filter when it's completed. The biggest concern with VFD's and old motors is voltage spikes as you know. I have talked with the rep from YASKAWA and they feel confident that it will not damage my motor do to the built in safety features of the VFD , he explained it to me a while back and basically sounded like he was talking in Greek to me.......lol

For the most part from what I got out of him, if I run it at full throttle (60hertz) there is no strain on the windings, it's when the hertz gets lowered that the windings are under strain.


The specifications on the Moak......
3hp/3ph /575rpm/13.4 amps Master Motor
32" from blade to the back spine
14" max throat opening
-5/+45 main tilting table 31" x 32"/ rear table 13" x 16"
Weight w/mobile base 1850#
Built in 1942 ( serial number later- don't have that info on my iPad)

B,

[David Kumm]

The info I received from the electrical people was that possible old motor damage from a vfd was possibly an issue when running 440 voltage but not at 220-240. Running the motor too slow is a while different deal due to the cooling. In fact my motor guy says there are more problems with old motors run off a RPC due to the imbalance. I don't remember the technical details, the only part that made it to long term memory was "some motors just don't like some RPCs". I had an old machine that ran better off the vfd and the Phase perfect than my RPC. Granted the RPC has not been rebalanced since I got it but it serves as a backup. The PP is the closest to true utility three phase of all three choices. Dave

[Brian Weick]

The info I received from the electrical people was that possible old motor damage from a vfd was possibly an issue when running 440 voltage but not at 220-240. Running the motor too slow is a while different deal due to the cooling. In fact my motor guy says there are more problems with old motors run off a RPC due to the imbalance. I don't remember the technical details, the only part that made it to long term memory was "some motors just don't like some RPCs". I had an old machine that ran better off the vfd and the Phase perfect than my RPC. Granted the RPC has not been rebalanced since I got it but it serves as a backup. The PP is the closest to true utility three phase of all three choices. Dave

Hey Dave,
As far as the imbalance on the RPC.......that is what I have read. It's difficult to decipher what is legitimate information or a biased opinion. I think it all depends on how well built the RPC is....but I am no rocket scientist....lol

My understanding of the PP is that it basically is a VFD without the variables.....

I will admit that I am totally biased with using VFD's on 3ph machinery. I have never had any issues with either the drive or the motor they are running, just that L350 filter. Problem I see is guys are buying used VFD's and they don't get the appropriate unit, mismatched or just not built or designed to well. I know the YASKAWA drives are expensive but I actually get great pricing all the drives I have are NOS with the exception of the v1000 that I will be ordering. All of them however were designed for 220 single ph input so there is no derating necessary.

I wish we had a VFD guru on one of the sites we belong to.....there is so much.....disinformation out there and it gets difficult to decipher heads from tails


B,