Pocket Screws Over Time

[keith micinski]

I was just thinking that same thing. There are a few hot button topics around here and apparently pocket screws has worked it's way into being one.

[jonathan eagle]

My original question was one of "loosening up over time". Not sure why the ethics of pocket screws came into play, but a dozen+ posts sure ran with it.....

Just ignore it. By the way, I think it was a very thoughtful gift you got from your Dad. Very impressed.

[scott vroom]

My original question was one of "loosening up over time". Not sure why the ethics of pocket screws came into play, but a dozen+ posts sure ran with it.....

Joe, EVERYTHING loosens up over time......my knee and shoulder joints remind me of that every day

[Jerry Olexa]

I use them always in cab construction where out of sight and always glue...Where xtra strength needed, I do hidden glue blocks at corners....Have had no problem over the years...

[Philip Rodriquez]

Joe,
I have had a pocket hole jig for years. While it doesn’t get a lot of use… it sure can be handy. Like others have said, I would not hesitate to use it if the joint will be hidden and it wouldn’t be subjected to a lot of stress.

[David Hostetler]

I had a pocket hole assembled set of end tables, coffee table, sofa and 2 chairs (all VERY rustic) that I dontated to Purple Heart this past spring when I finally tossed out the last piece of furniture I had with my ex... The furniture was fine, not even the slightest loosening.

[Tom Ewell]

25 some odd years ago I built my kitchen using nothing but joinery (M&T) for face frames.

I needed to rearrange some cabinets and add a few for a little remodel, used pockets for the face frames. Needless to say, I had the new face frames assembled and clamped up to the cases in the time it would have taken just to setup for M&T.

Surprisingly, aside from a slight difference in the patina of the finish, the new ones look and function just like the old ones.

I have some old cabinets in my shop that are well over 20 years old with pocketed face frames, the joints are fine.

[Matt Meiser]

I also built a set of end tables and a coffee table with pocket hole joinery. They are all still very solid after 7 years and there's no detectable loosening. The coffee table really takes a beating as my daughter plays around it so she's always sitting on it, leaning on it, etc. As far as end-grain joints, when I was building face frames for cabinets I discovered about an hour after assembly that I'd made the rails on one too wide because I'd used the face frame measurement no the rail measurement. No problem I thought--I'll just take out the PHS and knock the glue joints loose on one side and cut the extra 3" off. Wrong--the wood on the stiles tore out. That was just 1.125 sq in of glue surface at each joint.

[Rob Holcomb]

Joe, my post has nothing to do with pocket hole joinery as I have no knowledge and therefore no input but since you mentioned how you noticed that the topic had changed from whether pocket hole joinery will loosen up to the ethics of pocket hole joinery, I'll comment. In most forum posts, this happens and I rather enjoy it. Many times, I learn something about something that is posted that is completely off topic that I never thought of. It's like a 2 for 1 sale. I get the answer I was looking for and learn something else at the same time. Sometimes I learn many things! On the other hand, once in a blue moon, there is a question posted and none of the responses answers the question and that's ok too. The only problem I have is when I'm looking to purchase a tool and come here looking for which brand people like, I never get a definitive answer. Everyone has their favorites and I leave here and buy what I think I will like best and what will work best for me. So to get back on topic, Norm did a series on building kitchen cabinets and he used pocket hole joinery and glue. I can't imagine a Master Craftsman, would use that type of joinery if it had a high failure rate.

[Erik Christensen]

well when it comes to aesthetics - it's all in the eye of the beholder. I have built a few things where the easiest assembly was with exposed pocket holes - it took a tad more time to lay them out even and symmetrical and make sure to drill slowly to avoid any tear-out - I filled the holes with contrasting wood plugs you can get online and shaved flush with a plane. sand & finished as usual and the pocket holes became part of the design - I liked the final look and so does management.

to me they are like any of the joinery options - M&T, dowels, domino's, dado's, etc - depends on project & tooling at hand

[Neil Brooks]

Gotta use glue.

Agreed.

Glued and screwed (w/my Kreg jig) ... in the few places where I've used them ... they seem durable and appropriate.

They get a bad rap, but -- like most things -- I think there's a time and a place for pocket screws joinery.

[keith micinski]

I love when a post gets brought back from a long time ago and you read through it and realize you posted in it and don't remember any of it.

[Bryan Cramer]

Keep pocket screws for what they were made for - face frames. I follow this (and use glue) and I have had no problems. Problems might show up if they are used elsewere (joining aprons to table legs). Pocket screws are fast and great for face frames where extra strength comes from the face frame being gued to the cabinet.

[michael veach]

Agreed.

Glued and screwed (w/my Kreg jig) ... in the few places where I've used them ... they seem durable and appropriate.

They get a bad rap, but -- like most things -- I think there's a time and a place for pocket screws joinery.

+1 pocket screws can have a place even in fine furniture or cabinetry. But, I don't use them where they are visible.

[Lex Boegen]

Pocket screws are a fine technique when used appropriately. Sometimes I use pocket screws, sometimes biscuits, sometimes mortise and tenon. They have their place. If the only tool you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail. My own experience with Kreg pocket hole joinery has been positive, but I wouldn't use it just anywhere. If a joint is going to receive a lot of stress, then a mortise and tenon is probably your best choice. If it's not under stress and you can hide the pocket holes, then why not use them? IMHO, the more tools and techniques you have at your disposal, then the more choices you have for design and construction. There is no "one size fits all" tool or technique.