Suggestions on insert shaper tooling

[Jeff Monson]

I'm looking for some input on cabinet door tooling, I have a few carbide tip amana cutters, but now I need another profile. I'm tired of buying large expensive carbide tip cutters......so I've made up my mind to purchase some insert cabinet door cutters.

Here's what I've looked at so far.

The freud rp and rs series, they look good and and amazon has good pricing on them right now, the
only drawback I can see is I'd like the rail/stile cutter to be 1 piece so I can just lower the spindle to make the other cut. Also availability through amazon seems to be bad.

The amana insert tooling looks nice, but there is no shaker style profile, also seems a little more expensive the the freuds or infinity? Also the rail/stile cutter states its good for 7/8 to 1" doors, well
most of mine are 3/4"?

The infinity insert tooling seems to have the best price, 1 piece rail/stile cutter, but selection of profiles
is more limited.

I'd like some input on the pro's and con's of any of the above, also would like input on other tooling mfgs.
that I have not mentioned. I'd like to be done buying tooling for awhile (if possible)

[Karl Brogger]

Most profiles won't accept a shaker profile. There isn't enough there to back the insert.

I have no input on frued or amana heads, other than both are middle of the road tools for everything else they make. Not bad, but not that great either.

I have an LRH set which is pretty decent, but they filed. I've got another set that I don't know where it came, I think its a WHM. Not sure though. It's a really nice set of heads.

I just ordered a set of Whiteside shaker heads yesterday. $480





I would really like to have some heads custom made that are a bigger diameter, and either 4 or 5 wing. Definitely a 5 wing for a panel raiser.

[Larry Edgerton]

There are more brands of insert tooling than you can shake the proverbial stick at, it gets confusing at times.

I use a bunch of different stuff, but I do have two sets of Freud insert cutters in 1'1/4 bore. I have two so I don't have to change things around, one in each shaper. It works for me and th ecutters are sharp and cheap. I charge a new set to each kitchen, and then I have the used ones for small projects.

I have quite a collection of reproduction knives in corrigated back style, and I would recommend getting atwo or three of these heads in different sizes. You can get a large profile set made for small runs for around a c note, give or take. Once you have them, the knives, you have new options for other projects and they can be resharpened many times. Go with the better grades of steel knife stock from the offset, it will pay you back and is a small difference up front.

I have a Lietz straight cutter that is adjustable for angle and has replacable cutters. It was expensive but has made my life easier quite a few times when I wanted an odd angle.

Larry

[Peter Quinn]

Jeff, I have the freud rp2000 panel raiser, and it does a fine job. I had my reservations about a two knife head, but the performance is great, the carbide is razor sharp literally. There are nicer insert panel raisers like Garniga and Schmidt that are 3Z, but the cost is much greater, and some are not multi profile. I guess the industrial stuff makes sense if your setting is industrial, but for the small shop you may not need the performance and may never recover the additional cost.

I have not used any insert cabinet sets except the knives on the Amana profile pro heads, which are HSS one piece cope and stick sets for 3/4" doors only. They do a good job in hard woods for short runs, and the knives are fairly cheap. They have a tongue and groove set for the profile pro heads that is basically a shaker set up which might prove cost effective. I do not see any one piece insert heads offering a square edge profile otherwise. I have not used any of the insert heads you mention, but I do have a few observations. They limit you to a fixed panel tongue size, which is not generally a problem if you make raised panels, but is if you do anything with flat panels from sheet goods. The higher end sets are stacked 6 head sets with individual insert heads, and can generally be set up with cutters for 5.5M plywood or shim adjustable cutters to match any thickness. Garniga would be an example, but that is a big jump in price to get to that level. I think Laguna has the Garniga set on sale this month though?

For the Freud set, you could just stack both cope and stick on your spindle at once and adjust the height to change between cope and stick, though you will have to run one up higher on the spindle than with the other kits. For me changing heads makes more sense as generally you won't have to change heights AT ALL, just swap cope and stick at the same spindle height setting, which could prove more efficient unless you have a digital height gauge on your shaper, in which case its a matter of personal style more than anything. The amana heads do seem to be set up for thicker doors, and they look like for 3/4" doors you would either have a compromised profile or a very thin flat on the back which might prove too thin to hold the panels in? Freud offers the most choice in terms of different profiles, and I think you can buy the basic head and add knives a la carte with the RS1000 set up. Maybe PM Mike Heidrick about that, I think he may have that set up?

[Bob Falk]

I have a CMT insert set and have used a couple of the included profiles as well as other specialty profiles (about $15-$20 online) that I needed for a window trim project. I have been very happy with results, though I have run only dozens of feet through the cutters, not thousands. I really think this is the way to go for the hobbyist/serious woodworkers. High production is likely a different matter. bob

[Peter Quinn]

Jeff, the Amana profile pro set offers the square edge tongue and groove set up with a carbide knife option for longer life, so that might make that a better deal if its a regular for you.

http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/64f012.html

[Jeff Monson]

Thanks for the info. I do have the profile pro with a few inserts, I looked at the rail/stile sets they offer for profile pro, setup would be ok for straight runs, but what about cathedral or arc top doors? I dont see where a rub collar is listed for this head and inserts.

Jeff, the Amana profile pro set offers the square edge tongue and groove set up with a carbide knife option for longer life, so that might make that a better deal if its a regular for you.

http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/64f012.html

[Jeff Duncan]

I have not yet gone to insert tooling, so I'll just offer my thoughts. I don't do a lot of volume, several kitchens a year, so I don't see myself benefiting as much from going to insert heads. I have 3 profiles in the Freeborn cutters and have done several kitchens with each set, I haven't even had them sharpened yet. I also have a couple custom profiles that I just have ground in corrugated by my knife guy. The thing I like about the Freeborn sets is the ability to do 3 different types of cuts. When I do kitchens almost every one has a couple glass doors. About every 4th or 5th will have a wine cooler or small ref requiring a profiled frame to fit it. I can do the normal 5 panel of course, flip the cutters to do the glass doors, and then if needed swap the cutters again for the profiled panel. To do this with insert tooling you'll need to at least buy the 3 knife sets (if available) and I believe some even require different heads....you'll have to check on that though.

I think insert heads are great if your doing a LOT of doors and/or if you don't do much of the glass or profiled panels. But for small shop volume...well the cost of the cutters are figured into a kitchen anyway, so that's what I've stuck with.

good luck,
JeffD

[david brum]

Jeff, there is a rub collar system designed for Profile Pro cutter heads. It has interchangeable diameter collars, so you don't have to buy the bearing for every size.

http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/61600.html

[Tony Joyce]

I would really like to have some heads custom made that are a bigger diameter, and either 4 or 5 wing. Definitely a 5 wing for a panel raiser.

Help me understand why you would need 4 or 5 wings and which tooling manufacturers recommends this?

[Karl Brogger]

Help me understand why you would need 4 or 5 wings and which tooling manufacturers recommends this?

Recommends? I don't know who recommends it. My cousin had a four wing panel raiser made and it was awesome. My three wing LRH does a good job, his four wing is incredible. Even when not super sharp, it leaves a very smooth cut.

A bigger diameter for cope and rail will give you more room for more inserts and a higher tip speed. Should give a better cut, and with more inserts run some higher feed rates, which for me saves me money.

[Peter Quinn]

I have not yet gone to insert tooling, so I'll just offer my thoughts. I don't do a lot of volume, several kitchens a year, so I don't see myself benefiting as much from going to insert heads. I have 3 profiles in the Freeborn cutters and have done several kitchens with each set, I haven't even had them sharpened yet. I also have a couple custom profiles that I just have ground in corrugated by my knife guy. The thing I like about the Freeborn sets is the ability to do 3 different types of cuts. When I do kitchens almost every one has a couple glass doors. About every 4th or 5th will have a wine cooler or small ref requiring a profiled frame to fit it. I can do the normal 5 panel of course, flip the cutters to do the glass doors, and then if needed swap the cutters again for the profiled panel. To do this with insert tooling you'll need to at least buy the 3 knife sets (if available) and I believe some even require different heads....you'll have to check on that though.

I think insert heads are great if your doing a LOT of doors and/or if you don't do much of the glass or profiled panels. But for small shop volume...well the cost of the cutters are figured into a kitchen anyway, so that's what I've stuck with.

good luck,
JeffD

Garniga insert heads cover all those needs and more. They are stacked just like a regular freeborne head. You can also spin a large coping head for integral tenons with coped rails, glass door, etc. But you are into it for $1500 or more. It's a great value if you use different profiles, as the additional knife sets are cheaper than dedicated three wing braised tooling, or if you do high volume, where repeat sharpens lead to the cutter heads not matching so well, or if you run a CNC shaper like a Martin or big SCMI and need a consistent diameter over the life of the tool. Three braised heads from freeborn will cost you more than a kit from garniga which makes 5 different profiles, bit you pay it all up front.

Jeff, Amana has the bearing system with aluminum rings to match different diameters, they can tell you which ring fits which knives if that is of interest, but the literature isn't much help. I have the bearing and a 150MM ring, it works well. I took a close look at the cabinet profiles for e profile pro and the square edge one makes sense, turns out I actually have that one in my pile of cutters, but the other two are sort of weird geometry. One has a very small groove, the other a strange stepped rabbit back with a shallow stub tenon. Not sure I'd want to use those frankly.