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Thread: Lets talk about dog holes

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Lets talk about dog holes

    I have seen lots of great looking benches here on this website and am trying to learn so today my question relates to the dogholes, Previously I asked and the consensus opinion was the plain old 3/4" dia holes were the way to go. Now the question is how to place them. What are the rules or best practices related to the row of dog holes down the length of the bench. Is a row of holes 6 inches away from the edge too far to be useful? Is it better to have them be closer to the edge? What is the biggest driver in placing the holes? Any ideas and logic behind them would be appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Sep 2008
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    Hi Pat,

    I went through this when designing mine. Planing closer to the edge is easier for me, so I put them about 2" in. I think I read once that Schwarz recommended about 4" in, so you could clamp at the center of an 8" wide board. Just be aware of where your legs attach to the top so you don't inadvertently place a hole right over one, however some have done this intentionally with a horizontal hole bored out of the front of the leg so you can get a finger in there to push the dog up (see Jim Kirkpatrick's build thread).

    Mike

  3. #3
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    I find that the closer to the edge the better. Mine are centered about 2.5" away from the front edge of the bench currently. When working on narrow stock I find myself wishing the holes were closer to the edge, espically for running groves with a plow plane or when using other fenced tools like a rabbet plane. My first bench had holes at 6" or so from the edge. It was not ideal for plaining... but I did not do a lot of hand work when I built it.

    At this point my ideal bench would have square dog holes at about 1.5" from the edge of the bench and 3/4 holdfast holes where needed.
    Andrew Gibson
    Program Manger and Resident Instructor
    Florida School Of Woodwork

  4. #4

    What about your vise?

    I find this an interesting thread. Are you guys looking at this as holes for just a holdfast?

    My question is do you have a end/tail vise? Because if you do, whether the vise includes a dog or whether you put one in the wood attached to the jaws, that to me would determine the distance from the front edge. I have a bench that I equipped with one vise on the front and some of the dog holes I will drill will be perpendicular to the front of the bench and also in line with the vise dog.

    Since I don't have a tail/end vise, the holes I drill along the length of the bench are for the holdfast. But I am following you on the suggestions, so far we are talking 2-2 1/2" to 4" from the edge as being the target. Since I just got my holdfast from TFWW, this conversation is timely.

    Jim

  5. #5
    I would think the dog holes would need to line up with your tail vise dog. Closer to the edge is typically better.
    Holdfast holes are a different story. There you don't need them any closer together then the diameter of the "swing" of the holdfast around it's center (hole). I like one next to where I chop dovetail waste. The nice thing about holdfast holes is you can auger them in as needed.

  6. #6
    1" for me.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
    I like mine about 4+ inchs in as I like to lean my hip against the bench...

    Spacing has to due with how much your tail vise opens and closes and how much you want to open and close it to clamp differnt leagnt boards.. I'd choose 6"-8" even if you have 12" travel in tail vise..

    Also note you want a double hole just infront of your front vise as a planing stop as show on my website > My Projects> Workbench> bottom of page> David Charlesworth's Articles with illustrations
    aka rarebear - Hand Planes 101 - RexMill - The Resource

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Maynard, MA
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    I believe Chris Swartz (my bench guru) now suggests about 2 1/2 in. from the front edge if, like Andrew, you use a lot of fenced hand planes. Otherwise I'd go 5 to 6 in. On spacing, chris uses about 3 1/2 in. This isn't critical either. As Johnny said, how much do you want to crank your vise? If you space at 6" you can always go back and make it 3!

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    When I made this bench I used a vice with a pop up dog as a tail vice. The first hole was as close to the vice as I could put it due to the vice hardware underneath. They are located 8" in from the edge if I recall. Its comfortable at that distance and works well for what I do.

    0220111412.jpg
    "If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy" -Red Green

  10. #10
    As has been mentioned by Mike, your dog hole location is a function of your tail vise design. Pick your tail vise and then you can start to think about where you want your dog holes. I have a "Michael Fortune" style tail vise and like Russell's bench my dog holes are about 1" from the front of my bench. I have a second row of dog holes with the same spacing about 12" behind this front row, this allows me to secure wider stock and panels.

    No matter how many dog holes you have in your bench top the good ol' clamps come out at some point!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Drilling dog holes

    I'm not trying to commandeer this thread but what do people use here to drill that many holes? I know this sounds strange but following the above spacing a 3'x7' top would have about 11 x 24 holes. With a 4" thick top, the 264 holes equate to about 88' of 3/4" hole in hard maple. I understand that there are many purists (and those young athletes) here who would find boring that manu holes fun but it'd require all of my shop time for quite a long time (not to mention the recovery time! <g>).

    I've considered auger bits but the ones I've seen are recommended for soft wood (some ?Lee Valley?) indicating they won't hold up to cutting much hardwood.

    One option is to use a plunge router with a 3/4" bit.

    Another is to use a 3/4" twist drill.

    Another is a forstner though holding it perpendicular to the top may be an issue?

    Experiences welcome.. <g>
    One can never have too many planes and chisels... or so I'm learning!!

  12. #12

    Drilling holes

    I'm not a fan of round dog holes which is not to say that they don't work! I have always gone with rectangular dog holes that I machined prior to glueing up my benches. Takes a bit of time with the dado blade and router but there's no aching triceps in the morning.

  13. #13
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    Mine are also 4" on center, but the front holes are a mere 1.5" away from the front. I've never regretted as I use allot of combination planes and I need the smaller width boards to be able to hang over the edge slightly so the fence of the combo plane can ride against it. The second row is 10" back from the front also 4" on center - this corresponds with the holes on the tail vise chop. For wide boards, I just set up a plane stop but it is also nice to be able to clamp round edges and tops with four dogs. The front vise is a leg vise. I like the setup enough that if/when I build a new top, I'll do the same with dog holes and tail vise, but would nix the leg vise and go to a quick release with a good chop on the front too.

  14. #14
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    What I'm working on is starting to look a lot like the top Matt Ranum has pictured with the woodworkers vise (Rockler 7 inch quick release model) mounted at about the same position. I was planning to put 3/4" holes 6 inch on center and was wondering if the y should be centered on the vise, which would put them approx 5 inch back from the front edge. I could possibly offset the holes toward the front, off the centerline of the vise, maybe by a couple inches - not sure if this would play havoc with the vise or not. I was planning to use a Forstner bit to drill the holes (power tools you know), and wasn't going to put in lots of holes other than the single row - to start with anyway. I figured maybe just a couple holes on another line approx midway back on the benchtop (approx 12 inches from the front edge) and that these would provide an anchor point for a planing stop in that direction. I hadn't planned on a leg vise just yet - figuring I could clamp what I need to the top, legs, etc. Anyway, I really liike to hear the pro's and con's of each idea. Thanks for the feedback so far.

  15. #15
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    I'm with Andrew et. al. I think the closer to the edge the better. My bench has them 2" from the edge and if I could have I would have put them even closer. I guess if you know that you'll never use a fenced plane then it doesn't really matter but closer to the edge has the potential to make things easier if you ever do.

    Regarding end vices with . The row does not need to be in line with the dead center on the vise. The closer one is to the center the less risk there is of racking, but you can definitely offset the dog and still get plenty of clamping pressure. The dog hole in my vise chop is about 2" off the center screw and I have had zero problems with racking.

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