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Thread: Stanley Jack Plane Prices

  1. #16
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    What advantage does the high end plane provide? Thicker blade and better chip-breaker for me means that it performs better especially on tougher to plane wood.
    If one thinks this is the only advantage, then one has not been paying attention.

    To make one thing clear, most of my planes are old Stanley/Bailey's that have been tuned into doing their jobs quite well, thank you. I have owned a few Bedrocks and can say there is an improvement in function due to the way the base and frog mate.

    I can not say much about the Veritas planes since I do not own any. I do know that many of them have set screws for blade and mouth positioning. That is innovation beyond the attention to the other details that make so many find their planes a joy to use.

    I do own 3 Lie-Nielsen planes. Beyond the "thicker blade and chip breaker" is the improved metallurgy, precision machining and improvements in design.

    BTW, the absolute lack of backlash on the LN bench plane drives me nuts sometime when adjusting the blade. My mind has become so used to working with backlash, it is difficult to work without it.

    The mating of the frog and base is improved by precision machining. FWW covers this a little in their recent article evaluating planes and explains why this beats the WoodRiver V3 for frog adjustment.

    The large mating area between frog and base help to dampen chatter when planing. This may work best in a production situation. There are various ways to "coax" a Bailey into working just as well as a Bedrock in most cases.

    My old planes can require a lot of patience. Hopefully, one day I may receive some patience if I obtain their age. If it is frustrating to turn your adjuster knob a full turn or even two or three full turns, then an old well used Stanley is not the tool for you. (This is what people are referring to when they say adjuster backlash.) Especially when the "sweet spot" of planing is likely to be less than a quarter turn of the adjuster. With the threading on the Stanley adjusters being 24 tpi, a quarter turn will move the blade ≈ .010". If my geometry is working, at 45° that is about 0-.007" difference in the cutting depth of the blade in a quarter turn.

    If the LN or LV have a finer thread on their adjusters, that would be helpful.

    Having the maker stand behind the flatness of the sole is something worth considering. Besides that, the weight of the plane will be more than the old Stanley planes. The weight does help to keep planes in the cut. If it did not, the aluminum planes that Stanley made would have been much more popular. That seems like a good example of tool designers not being the ones using the tools they made.

    Yes, a better and heavier blade may improve an old Bailey, but it will not turn a $20 garage sale find into a modern marvel. Further, when you do the math, you do not have a $20 modern marvel, you have $20 + the cost of the blade and chip breaker old plane that may still need a bit more work.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 05-06-2011 at 1:21 PM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  2. #17
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    Agreed. I've been seeing that "jack is a junker for hogging" written here a lot, and have just not felt like starting a discussion on it, so I'm glad you said it. With the size of most of the lumber I use, I could easily get by with only a good jack for roughing, trying and smoothing.

    It's funny to read, because while some people say "don't spend money on a good jack", that is precisely what I'd like to spend some real money on. Perhaps a LN 5 or 5 1/2 for my birthday? probably not, but maybe one day....


    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Hughto View Post
    I think the "primarily for roughing" thing is not really accurate. A Stanley 5 is not much different than a 4 or a 7 or a 3 etc. It can be tuned just as much, and it can do just as fine work. It will smooth and it will joint. The place where LN stuff really shines in my experience is in smoothing difficult woods - high angle frogs and high manufacturing tolerances that allow for fine mouths and fine adjustments. Vintage Stanley will do 95% of routine tasks every bit as well as LN's. And that's true for any number plane. LN tolerances, thick blade, and fine adjustment etc. make it wonderful, but not necessary most of the time.

  3. #18
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    +1 on Sean an John about the #5 being much more than a roughing plane.

    I have one set up that can put a high shine on a piece of wood just as well as any smoother in my shop.

    Another is set to take a thicker cut to hog a bit of wood when needed, but most of the time it is my short jointer for smaller pieces of wood.

    There is a type 17 - #5 in my shop that is sometimes used for shooting but is also used as a general purpose plane outside the shop.

    Then there is the one with a corrugated base that just hangs around in case it is needed.

    Someday if the need is felt, one of them may get coaxed into being a scrub plane.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #19
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    Jim makes a good point for cheaper planes. I have two traditional rear toted wooden jacks, and one german horned jack, each one set with a different shaped iron, and set at a different depth. All of them together cost me about 1/10th of the cost of a new "premium" plane. To me it's an advantage not to have to change the iron, or adjust the depth...I just reach for a different plane. It sounds like one of those advantages that's really a "non-advantage", but if you're working on a whole bunch of lumber it makes a difference.

    Or you could just buy a jointer/planer, and you wouldn't need all that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    +1 on Sean an John about the #5 being much more than a roughing plane.

    I have one set up that can put a high shine on a piece of wood just as well as any smoother in my shop.

    Another is set to take a thicker cut to hog a bit of wood when needed, but most of the time it is my short jointer for smaller pieces of wood.

    There is a type 17 - #5 in my shop that is sometimes used for shooting but is also used as a general purpose plane outside the shop.

    Then there is the one with a corrugated base that just hangs around in case it is needed.

    Someday if the need is felt, one of them may get coaxed into being a scrub plane.

    jtk

  5. #20
    5 1/2 is Charleworth students recommended #1 plane.. Half smoother half jack plane..

    I just dont have a need for expensive bench planes I do love the much improved blades though..
    aka rarebear - Hand Planes 101 - RexMill - The Resource

  6. #21
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    A fellow creeker here in Savannah told me about the Charlesworth's "Super Smoother" theory on the 5 1/2". I went over his house and gave his LN 5 1/2" a test spin, and it was sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Kleso View Post
    5 1/2 is Charleworth students recommended #1 plane.. Half smoother half jack plane..

    I just dont have a need for expensive bench planes I do love the much improved blades though..

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Yang View Post
    since it's primarily responsible for roughing (unless it's your only plane)
    Far be it from me to pigeon hole a jack plane. It's name implies that it is a very (the most?) versatile plane. In my case, since I have a dedicated smoother and jointer, it would be limited in use to roughing. I sat through Deneb's demonstration of using a jack plane to bring a board from rough to smooth, with some blade and setting changes, so I'm aware of the versatility. I wasn't particularly inclined to get into the discussion regarding the list of potential applications of the No. 5, but it seems the thread has sprouted a 2nd life based on a portion of a statement.
    New Canuck Workshop

  8. #23
    The Fore and Jack Planes
    Welcome to the weird middle ground of plane sizes, where any tool can do any job and trade-offs abound. Historically, this size plane was used for roughing. You’d put a heavily cambered iron in the tool, open up the mouth all the way and take off huge ribbons of wood. In this day and age of inexpensive and accurate machinery, few people use this size tool in this historical manner. Let’s take a look.
    Understanding Bench Planes

    Lastly, here's what Chris Schwarz writes about Jack Planes.

    Sadly, this was all to say I understand, but also understand what I wrote and why I'm looking for a cheap'ish, vintage Stanley instead of buying a new LN or LV. I (like many of us) have a list of tools that we like/need/want to purchase, and I would rather put my hard earned dollars toward tools that deliver added benefit for the dollars.
    New Canuck Workshop

  9. #24
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    To be clear, I wasn't intending to correct you. I always assume that the thread is being read by lots of folks. I have also seen the idea of a jack as typically a rough use plane become sort of a meme. All I was trying to tell anyone who might be reading along was that there is nothing inherent in a jack's parts or design etc. that mean it has to be so. One can choose how to use any size bench plane and tune it accordingly. It's a rather obvious point I guess, but just in case anyone thought jack size is only capable of rough ...

  10. #25
    It's all good, except I still don't have one.
    New Canuck Workshop

  11. #26
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    There are some pretty sweet $30-50 jacks on ebay right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Yang View Post
    It's all good, except I still don't have one.

  12. #27
    Rest assured. Eyes are on the jacks, where ever they might be.
    New Canuck Workshop

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Yang View Post
    It's all good, except I still don't have one.
    Walt has a 5C Type 16 in excellent shape for $45 showing available on his site right now. Not sure why "he's out"????

    Jim B

  14. #29
    Sean's got it right. I would ditto everything he said.You may develop a liking for a certain series of planes, and that is fine. Don't let someone else's preferences become yours, necessarily. Read everything here and learn. Dealers are great and serve a purpose in the hobby, but you don't need to pay a dealer 2X to buy a #5 user plane. If money isn't a problem, then by all means help to keep those nice people in business. They do tend to corner the supply of nicer tools, and many of those tools go into collections rather than workshops.

  15. #30
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    5 1/2 is Charleworth students recommended #1 plane.. Half smoother half jack plane..
    A fellow creeker here in Savannah told me about the Charlesworth's "Super Smoother" theory on the 5 1/2". I went over his house and gave his LN 5 1/2" a test spin, and it was sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
    I do like my #5-1/2, but I end up grabbing one of my #6s more often. Maybe it is just because they are on an easier shelf to reach.

    Besides, my #5-1/2 is one of the old 2-1/4" blade sizes. There are more spare blades to change quickly of the #6 size.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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