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Thread: Japanese Plane Confusion

  1. #1
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    Japanese Plane Confusion

    I want to get a wooden jack plane to rough dimension stock and thought about getting a Japanese plane. But after looking at some of the Japanese plane sellers' websites, I am more confused than ever. Way too many choices. So, can someone please share an easy way to identify which Japanese plane would best serve that function?

    I realize cost is a factor and I'm not looking to buy a plane under $100, but I am not ready to spend $500 either.

    Thanks in advance,

    Steve

  2. #2
    You are going to be hard on the iron of a jack plane, and you're going to want to sharpen to some type of camber, at least that's my experience. It's going to be the iron that might chip, might be exposed to dirt, etc, that you can't get off rough lumber.

    I go straight from high camber to a straight across iron as a next step if I use a japanese plane to flatten something - most probably don't, I guess, but the difference between a japanese plane and a western plane is on that second step you can generate a lot of force pulling without impacting your joints, so the camber to me isn't quite as important for step two. It doesn't really save me time. It is important on the first plane, though.

    So, what I'm getting at is don't be too concerned about what the jack plane is brand-wise. I use a funjii plane for the jack. I can sharpen it very quickly with a belt grinder and not worry about when it chips or whether or not I'm sparing enough iron when I'm sharpening. Any good shape japanese plane, even a reform school type like a funjii will serve that purpose just fine. Every step after that, I use a higher quality plane with a tighter mouth.

    I don't think you want the plane to be real wide - if you're an average size and average strength guy, a 55-60mm plane is a good starting point for a jack.

  3. #3
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    There is a great deal of discussion/links to info on the various aspects of Japanese plane design in my post regarding Japanese plane design on this page. My post about fore planes also has a great deal of information, as you may know many use fore and jack planes for the same type work.

    I had a few of the more experienced Japanese plane people suggest I try one of the smaller Japanese planes to start as there are good examples available at low cost. Apparently the smaller planes are not quite as picky regarding tuning as the larger planes either. The bottom line being a smaller plane can be tried out for very little investment in money or personal time vs larger planes. Some experienced plane users simply prefer large planes with totes. There are other experienced users who have both large pull planes and large tote planes, YMMV...

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    There are other experienced users who have both large pull planes and large tote planes, YMMV...
    I am one of those. To me, other than for the effect of being able to try different things, it's a way to extend how long you can dimension boards when you're not the type who does it 6 days a week for hours a day.

    If some of your planes are pull and some are push, you can work rough boards for a very long time, even if you're not in very good shape.

    If they're all push, you'll find that you probably have to stop after a half hour or so of work, even if you get to take a break for sharpening. Some part of your body will feel rubbery by then.

    I don't prefer pull planes for jointing/flattening because they aren't as precise as fast as western planes and because I haven't yet found the equivalent of a good infill panel plane (which can go right up to the point of smoothing and work will with and against the grain in hardwoods), (a LN #6 set up tight mouthed is awfully similar to a panel plane in weight).

    On wide boards with a plane that can run both directions on wood, you can do an X pattern followed by through strokes and skip checking for wind. On narrow boards, you obviously can't, but I don't think most HT only woodworkers are starting with lots of little narrow boards.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    ...There are other experienced users who have both large pull planes and large tote planes, YMMV...
    Yeah, I use both types, also push and pull both types.

    Steve, the thing that seems to differentiate a Japanese try/fore plane from a smoother from a polisher is the size of the mouth opening. You should be able to find a small plane with gaping mouth for few dollars; but I still strongly recommend that you call Hida or email Stu and ask them what they recommend. Hida has several $100-200 Koetsu and Daishin planes that are reputed to be very good, definitely not junk. Stu has piles of planes that look suitable.

    Also, Wilbur Pen lives in NJ and belongs to a large woodworking group. Perhaps if you contact him (he uses Japanese planes), you could meet at a WW meeting one month, maybe try out a couple of his planes.

    Pam
    Last edited by Pam Niedermayer; 05-12-2011 at 3:51 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Niedermayer View Post
    Also, Wilbur Pen lives in NJ and belongs to a large woodworking group. Perhaps if you contact him (he uses Japanese planes), you could meet at a WW meeting one month, maybe try out a couple of his planes.
    Or you could drop by and try some out in person, if you want.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilbur Pan View Post
    Or you could drop by and try some out in person, if you want.
    Oops, mispelled your last name, sorry. Also, I didn't want to be the one to commit you, very generous.

    Pam

  8. #8
    Commit him to where, the pen?

  9. #9
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    Hi Steve,

    The answer is, oddly, very easy.

    The very next plane I will buy for myself will be more of a jack type plane, and it's going to be a Tsunesaburo 60-70mm "Miki" with a steeper than normal bedding angle, maybe up near 45 degrees.

    About as bomb proof as it gets, and within 30 seconds of opening the box, you're planing away, and you'll keep planing for a very, very long time, since the blade should stay usably sharp for longer than anything presently available by a sizable margin. Already adjusted, sharpened and ready to work.


    When I get it, I'll video my opening the box and getting it working. No other way to show how 'difficult and troublesome' Japanese planes really are with a 1 minute, real time video...

    Seriously though, there are few 'bad' planes out there. Once you commit to parting with about $200, they're almost universally pretty good. Under that price, they're usually good enough to put to work. Under $100, and the quality control drops off but the basics are all there and still quite good.

    There is some junk out there though. I try to avoid it, which is why I don't have some of the really cheap stuff kicking around and refuse to ship it off to anyone.

    (Says I with a good smoothing plane that cost me $20 new...)

    Pick a few and throw them at the folks here. They'll usually shoot you straight.

    There is something to be said for getting into a cheap-o plane, just so you won't worry about getting stuck into it. The inevitable tears are cheaper, and you won't need to shed them when you upgrade later on.

    Stu.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Tierney View Post
    Hi Steve,

    The answer is, oddly, very easy.

    The very next plane I will buy for myself will be more of a jack type plane, and it's going to be a Tsunesaburo 60-70mm "Miki" with a steeper than normal bedding angle, maybe up near 45 degrees.

    About as bomb proof as it gets, and within 30 seconds of opening the box, you're planing away, and you'll keep planing for a very, very long time, since the blade should stay usably sharp for longer than anything presently available by a sizable margin. Already adjusted, sharpened and ready to work.


    When I get it, I'll video my opening the box and getting it working. No other way to show how 'difficult and troublesome' Japanese planes really are with a 1 minute, real time video...

    Seriously though, there are few 'bad' planes out there. Once you commit to parting with about $200, they're almost universally pretty good. Under that price, they're usually good enough to put to work. Under $100, and the quality control drops off but the basics are all there and still quite good.

    There is some junk out there though. I try to avoid it, which is why I don't have some of the really cheap stuff kicking around and refuse to ship it off to anyone.

    (Says I with a good smoothing plane that cost me $20 new...)

    Pick a few and throw them at the folks here. They'll usually shoot you straight.

    There is something to be said for getting into a cheap-o plane, just so you won't worry about getting stuck into it. The inevitable tears are cheaper, and you won't need to shed them when you upgrade later on.

    Stu.
    Thanks Stu,

    Looking forward to your video. My time spend woodworking is very limited - it's what's left over after tending to the demand of work, family, and everyone else who wants a piece of my time. Since I really like seeing finished projects, I have decided to pay others to be able to acquire tools that are close to "read to use."

    Your description of the jack plane that you are making may have identified the source of my confusion. I went onto your website and was able to easily identify the blade you mentioned, but have no idea what kind of plane body you intend to put the blade into in order to make it a jack plane.

    Thanks,

    Steve

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