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Thread: Switch for dust collector (shop vac)

  1. #16
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    With all due respect to Alan (I'm very jealous of his DC setup), there is no need to over think this. I've been using the Lee Valley offering with my miter saw for a year or more with absolutely no issues with the saw or the vacuum. The saw's brake works just fine, and the switch has a long enough delay that the vacuum just runs continuously if I'm making repeat cuts. It is also easy enough to switch the vac to run continuously if I'm making a whole series of cuts. As for vacuum longevity, I'd much rather abuse a $50 shop vac and replace it every couple of years than to start a 3hp cyclone just to crosscut a board.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Schaffter View Post
    I forgot, some of those switches have a fixed or adjustable delay-on-off.

    Cycling the vac motor probably won't be an issue, but I would read the specs on the auto-switch carefully. It probably has a cycle limit to keep the relay (if it has one) from overheating or prevent premature wear on the contacts.

    Two other related issues to think about. First, check to see what effect the auto-switch has on the blade break- it may not work. You can test this by starting the saw and while it is running pull the plug. Some brakes rely on power to the brake circuit, some use reverse EMF from the motor to generate the power for braking. Maybe someone else with a little more knowledge can weigh in on this issue.

    The other issue is the auto-switch sensing circuit may not be able to handle braking reverse EMF.
    I'll check the specs on the relay unit to see if it has a duty cycle. Regarding the blade brake, if it's done electrically, the most likely thing that's being done is that when you switch the saw off, the motor is electrically converted from a motor to a generator (easy with universal motors). The power generated by the "generator" is dumped into a resistor. This converts the kinetic energy of the rotation of the saw to electrical energy. The resistor is sized to limit the current but to absorb the energy quickly, thereby acting like a brake. So nothing goes back to the grid or the relay unit - it's all contained in the saw.

    But I'll try your suggestion of pulling the plug at the same time as I switch it off to see if the brake doesn't activate.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest Bonner View Post
    Mike - I do not recommend the i-Socket at Woodcraft. I had one and used it for a while before it failed, and failed by reducing the voltage to the motor in my shopvac.
    Not arguing but, just to level the playing field; I have two i-Sockets that I have been running almost daily for years. One feeds a wye with one of my drill presses and smaller bandsaw connected. The vac fires whenever either of these tools is energized. A wye in the hose and blast gates control who gets the air draw (now if I could just automate those for a reasonable cost . . . ).

    The other unit is connected to a larger shop vac with an extension cord velcro'd along the 25' 2-1/4" hose. I connect this hose and power to various machines or step down hoses to routers, ROS and so forth. I scrolled back amongst some shop pics and the first i-Socket was bought in 2005 and the second one about 6 months later . . . . still going.

    P.s. Steve Clardy used to run the Craftsman ones in his pro shop and claimed no trouble.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  4. #19
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    Apr 2010
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    Maryland
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    Mike, here is a link to Rockler:

    http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17351

  5. #20
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    Feb 2003
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    Mike, Well there ya go! I think you have enough info to go for it!

    A few more comments-

    Eventually you will want to use both a shop vac connected to the blade port and a DC with some sort of shroud to catch what is spewed past the typically small blade guard.

    Another thing I've seen some folks do and have seen them installed on some saws is to add a wide, flexible plastic or rubber "scoop" to the bottom of the blade guard dust chute- it helps collect and direct more of the dust up towards the guard and reduces blow-by.

    As to Glenn's comment about automating the blast gate . . . maybe one of our resident engineers and tinkerers can figure out how to use the auto-switch and the inherent shop vac suction to operate a simple blast gate.

    How about using the auto-switch to power a really small and inexpensive solenoid whose only purpose is to release a lock? Let the vacuum's suction pull open a flapper-style or small version of Jeffrey Makiel's butterfly blast gate that uses a light spring or gravity to close? The vac's high SP (60" or more) should be more than adequate to operate the flapper quite nicely. Or, how about a traditional slide-style blast gate that uses the shopvac's SP to operate a bellows that pulls the slide out when the lock is released? It would need to slide easily and use gravity or a spring to close.

    One negative is that none of these gates will close with any flow in the duct, but who runs from machine to machine that quickly?

    Click, lightbulb on, burning brightly- I just thought of an even better, mechanically MUCH simpler, and non-clogging version! Hmmm, maybe I'll prototype and try to market it! (this is how my last design started!!)



    Speaking of easy

  6. #21
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    I bought an i-socket today from Woodcraft and it works fine. It holds the vacuum on for a short after I turn the miter saw off.

    Eventually, I'll get better dust collection but right now, I'm going from nothing to a shop vac and that's a significant step up for me.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  7. #22
    The iVac (first picture posted) can put the tool and vacuum on separate circuits. This is really handy if you are table routing and don't like to trip breakers.

    -Brian

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus Brewster 7 View Post
    Mike, here is a link to Rockler:

    http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17351
    Mike,
    This is what I have too. You can just order from Rockler with the free shipping code V9402 but you're in Villa Park which is about 5 minutes from Rockler anyways.
    Mike

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Nguyen View Post
    Mike,
    This is what I have too. You can just order from Rockler with the free shipping code V9402 but you're in Villa Park which is about 5 minutes from Rockler anyways.
    Mike
    Thanks, Mike. I actually bought the exact same thing from Woodcraft on Sunday and it works fine. But I went back today and bought the i-vac because it has a switch on it. The problem with a miter saw is that the dust collection is only partial - a lot of sawdust misses the collection port. Want I wanted was an easy way to turn the vac on so that I could disconnect the hose and use it to clean up the dust that missed the port. The i-vac has a switch which lets you turn the vac on without the saw being on.

    I kept the i-socket and will use that with my sander. I have a small shop vac and will hook that to my PC390. If it collects enough dust, all well and good. If not, I'll probably look at a Festool sander/vac combination. I'm still feeling my way and will eventually purchase a large dust collector for the rest of my tools, especially my cabinet saw and planer.

    It's a slow, and learning, process.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Irvine, CA
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    200
    Hi Mike,
    Do you have a separator for you shopvac? I tried most if not all the method using the 5 gallon bucket as the separator for the shopvac but nothing is as good as the Onieda Dust Deputy. Before the Onieda Dust Deputy, I used the Thien baffle with the 5 gallon bucket. The Thien design is very good but I use the shopvac for sanding so fine dust still get into the filter until I got the Onieda Dust Deputy. The DIY dust deputy is currently on sale right now $40.
    Mike

  11. #26
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    Aug 2005
    Location
    Midwest
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    Has anyone thought about the 15A budget on these things (and std circuits)? If you've got a 11-15A router table and try to run a shop vac that pulls 6-10A, aren't you over budget for a 15A switch (and its circuit) if both are drawing near peak power?

    I usually plug the router or other small tool and shop vac in separate outlets for this reason.
    Last edited by Dick Strauss; 05-30-2011 at 12:16 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Strauss View Post
    Has anyone thought about the 15A budget on these things (and std circuits)? If you've got a 11-15A router table and try to run a shop vac that pulls 6-10A, aren't you over budget for a 15A switch (and its circuit) if both are drawing near peak power?

    I usually plug the router or other small tool and shop vac in separate outlets for this reason.
    Two answers to your question.

    1. The i-vac allows you to power the saw and the vacuum from two different circuits - it has two separate plugs.

    2. While many tools are rated at maybe 15 amps, that's only when they're being fully loaded. I initially used an i-socket on my miter saw and shop vac - which powers them both from the same circuit - and never had my circuit breaker pop. The wiring is 12 gauge and the circuit breaker is 20 amps.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

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