Phil Thien Separator Testimonial

[Rick Bunt]

This may be “preaching to the choir,” but I thought I would post the results of a two-year and counting shop experiment. I bought a Grizzly G0548Z dust collector in the spring of 2009 and built a Phil Thien separator for a 30-gallon metal trash can at the same time. I followed Phil’s design as closely as I could and scaled it up for 4” hose connections. The collector serves my table saw, jointer, and planer. (For routing and sanding I use a shop-vac.)

I am a hobbyist as you can probably tell from the basement pictures. In the two years I have had this dust collection setup I have emptied the trash can about 20-25 times, but I have NEVER changed the plastic bag on the dust collector. This is the very first one that I installed when I set up the dust collector in 2009. The trash can fills all the way up to the baffle before sending appreciable material through to the bag. This has happened a few times accidentally and a few times intentionally when I was almost done working and just didn't want to stop to empty the can. I estimate that more than half of the material in the plastic bag is from those instances.

A little “crude” math…

After two years the plastic bag contains about one trash can full of material (probably less, but say one to be conservative). So even ignoring my few known overflows, the separator has a collection ratio of more than 20:1 (95%) of the material coming through (by volume and probably mass too). If I try to factor in the few times I know I over-filled the trash can and estimate that the bag contains "half a can full" of material or less, then the collection ratio goes up to 40:1 to 50:1 (97-98%) or higher.

Looking more closely at the contents of the plastic bag, more of the fine material makes it through than the bigger material. Though I can assure anyone that when I empty the trash can there is plenty of dust in there too! Overall, I would estimate that when jointing and planing the separator gets 99+% of the material, and that when using the table saw it collects more like 95-98% of the material. I cannot really address “chips” vs. “dust” in any more detail, and functionally it does not really matter to me.

In terms of dust collection I have not noticed any degradation in the flow rate from not changing the plastic bag (no measurements, it just "still works fine"). I give the canister paddles a turn or two every now and then and a small amount of dust settles down from the pleats in the canister. As an aside, the G0548Z dust collector has been outstanding and exceeded all my expectations. It has great suction (cfm and static pressure) and the canister filter (1 micron) works like a champ. I wear a dust mask when working anyway (3M 7500 series), but I do not notice anything getting through the filter or building up in that part of the shop.

The bottom line for me: Emptying the trash can is easy and with the 4 additional plastic bags that came with the dust collector, I am set for another decade or more—assuming I can remember where I put them in the shop when I finally decide to change the bag.

Hope this is useful to others.
-Rick

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[Dan Hintz]

Nothing Phil designs works the way he claims, I have proof... someone on this board says so. Phil refuses to provide proof of his success, and all of your other guys having success means nothing. Proof must come from Phil or else it's complete bunk.















Had to be done, Phil

[Art Mulder]

Soooooo, where and how do you empty your can?

I've considered this, for my own situation. I live on a compact city lot, and can only pour SO many cans of sawdust around the gardens in my back yard.
So I often end up putting sawdust out for trash, which means I need a bag anyway...

[Bob Riefer]

Hi Art, I'm sure I'm explaining what you already know but just in case.. The intent is that by capturing it in the can, that majority of the material doesn't go through the filter, therefore the filter is able to do it's job more effectively for longer. So, yes, you do still need to bag and toss the dust (if no other means to dispose), but your filter and air quality will be in better shape. I hope this helps.

[Rick Bunt]

Art - I empty the can in my yard, though it's not always easy to hide as you say. I mix in grass clippings and other yard waste and it seems to compost fairly well over the course of a year or so. If I had to throw it away (as I may soon), it might not help much, other than what Bob suggested.

[David Hostetler]

Your results are right on where mine are... Except I have managed to not overflow my drum. Mine has been filled / emptied about 10x in the last 2 years, and I have about 2 cups of debris in my bag...

So figure maybe 10 gallons not usable in a 55 gallon drum, so 45 gallons x10 is 450 gallons right? Now what percentage is 2 cups out of 450 gallons?

The blow by I get is negligable at worst...

[Jeff Fischer]

Rick,
I see from your photos that you have the special Australian version. (clockwise vortex for southern hemisphere)
Must be a trick photo! LOL

Jeff

[Joe A Faulkner]

Soooooo, where and how do you empty your can?

I've considered this, for my own situation. I live on a compact city lot, and can only pour SO many cans of sawdust around the gardens in my back yard.
So I often end up putting sawdust out for trash, which means I need a bag anyway...

I have 10 acres, so disposing of a can of saw dust here and there is no problem for me. For city or suburbia dwellers, I suspect that if you put it on CL that someone would gladly take it for horse stalls or mulching flower beds. I would also think you could put it on the curb with the trash.

[Alan Lightstone]

Actually had a horse owner refuse my sawdust as it was made from hardwood instead of softwood. So bagging it is.

[Curt Harms]

Soooooo, where and how do you empty your can?

I've considered this, for my own situation. I live on a compact city lot, and can only pour SO many cans of sawdust around the gardens in my back yard.
So I often end up putting sawdust out for trash, which means I need a bag anyway...

I didn't go the "pre separator" route, just put the baffle in the bottom of the D.C. cone/funnel/whatever. As far as disposal, you might check into wildlife rescues or animal shelters. They can often times use planer/jointer chips for bedding . Oak/Ash/Cherry/Pine are welcomed, Walnut and exotics would not be usable and I don't know if they'd be enthusiastic about mostly sawdust. Stables might be another possibility if there are any close by. And yes I use contractors' bags for transport.

[paul cottingham]

Nothing Phil designs works the way he claims, I have proof... someone on this board says so. Phil refuses to provide proof of his success, and all of your other guys having success means nothing. Proof must come from Phil or else it's complete bunk.

D Had to be done, Phil

You totally beat me to it.

[Rick Bunt]

Interesting, so I do. Perhaps you've hit upon the "fatal flaw" of the Thien separator--it won't work on the equator!

[Mark Blatter]

In three weeks LOML and I (kids too) are moving due to my job. After looking at many houses, we settled on one that wife can live with and, well, I cannot complain about as this will be my new shop.
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Until now my dust collection was hit and miss, mostly a broom and dust pan. One of the first items to be done is to add a dust collection system. I have been reading about a number of ideas, and after reading about Phil's separator I am convinced. The question though is if anyone has a suggestion on what type will work best with it? I want to have the ability to operate two tools simultaneously, i.e. TS & Planer, or Jointer and Sander. I was thinking along the lines of an Oneida, but now I am rethinking that I do not need to spend that kind of money.

Thoughts?

Mark

[Dan Friedrichs]

The question though is if anyone has a suggestion on what type will work best with it? I want to have the ability to operate two tools simultaneously, i.e. TS & Planer, or Jointer and Sander. I was thinking along the lines of an Oneida, but now I am rethinking that I do not need to spend that kind of money.

Well, if you are going to use the Thien baffle, you don't also need a cyclone, so just buy the "largest" motor/blower that you can get. Ideally, exhaust outside so that you don't need filters, either.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I want to have the ability to operate two tools simultaneously, i.e. TS & Planer, or Jointer and Sander.

Thoughts?

Mark

Unless you have help in your shop, you won't be running two machines at the same time. Blast gates will allow you to control suction to each machine as it's used. You could configure a sliding blast gate that allow only move to switch from one machine to the other in one operation.