finishing a crib

[Josh Rudolph]

For those of you who have built one. Am I better off to build and then finish, or finish first, then assemble.

I plan on using a dye to tone the crib, shellac for depth, and then a topcoat of either Waterlox or Arm-R-Seal. I have not decided on the top coat yet.

I do have an Earlex 5000 and have sprayed a few projects with success, so it is not out of the question to finish this way also. My biggest concern is the sanding between coats. Once assembled, the nooks and crannies make the sanding a bit of a hassle.

[Scott Holmes]

Beauty of Waterlox is sanding is not REQUIRED between coats as it is with polyurethane varnish (Arm-R-Seal) ... Waterlox is a slow drying varnish, don't recoat within 12 hours.

Waterlox would be my choice for a brush-on finish. You can spray it easily with your HVLP; HOWEVER do make sure to contain the overspray or you will be sorry... it will get on everything within 5-10 of the spray location, maybe even further away than that.

Some will tell you that conversion varnish or Cat lacquers are more durable, which they are; also, more expensive and more dangerous. I would not recommend either if you don't have the proper equipment -spray booth, high quality resporator, etc. Also, they cure very fast; you may not have time with a HVLP as HVLP tend to be a bit slow at delivery.

Build it; then spray the dye and proceed to finish.

[Clayton Jones]

I too am building a crib and plan to assemble it fully prior to finishing, as I do with most of my projects.

I'm had planned on using a homemade linseed oil / varnish blend... somewhat similar to Waterlox I suppose (although I've never used Waterlox before). Not using any dye/stain as I'm building out of cherry. I didn't realize that Waterlox needed no sanding between coats though... might be worth ordering some and trying it out!

[Prashun Patel]

Couple thoughts, Josh and Clayton:

- Waterlox is not an oil/varnish. It's a straight varnish. It does not need to be wiped off; only wiped on. It can be applied like an oil/varnish by wiping off, but you have to work quickly. The absence of any 'oil' makes it dry quicker than it's OV counterparts.

- Scott means that that sanding is not required for adhesion purposes. It might be required in order to remove dust nibs . You can minimize this need by thinning the Waterlox Gloss with mineral spirits (or by using the "Original Sealer Finish" which is already thinned.) Personally, I like that product better than the full strength one; it has a darker tone that I like. Also, Waterlox has a short shelf life, so buying the fullstrength product and then thinning it results in some loss for me, since I don't go thru it all quickly.

- The shellac is the thing that will require the most sanding in yr regimen only because it raises the grain of the wood for the initial coats. An oil-based varnish alone will give it plenty of depth, so I don't think shellac adds much depth here. Instead of shellac you could also use Boilied Linseed Oil which will not raise the grain but will highlight the grain. The best reason (IMHO) to use shellac would be to color the wood, or to seal the wood so you require less of your topcoat (it just cheapens and speeds the process a little).

I vote for a hybrid approach. For the main rails and large pieces, with easy to access joints, I say assemble first, then finish - paying special attn to cleaning the glue squeeze b4 it sets. For the sides of the crib which are likely closely spaced slats, I think it will pay to mask the tenons of the slats, and to dye and finish before glue up.

[Josh Rudolph]

- The shellac is the thing that will require the most sanding in yr regimen only because it raises the grain of the wood for the initial coats. An oil-based varnish alone will give it plenty of depth, so I don't think shellac adds much depth here. Instead of shellac you could also use Boilied Linseed Oil which will not raise the grain but will highlight the grain. The best reason (IMHO) to use shellac would be to color the wood, or to seal the wood so you require less of your topcoat (it just cheapens and speeds the process a little).

I vote for a hybrid approach. For the main rails and large pieces, with easy to access joints, I say assemble first, then finish - paying special attn to cleaning the glue squeeze b4 it sets. For the sides of the crib which are likely closely spaced slats, I think it will pay to mask the tenons of the slats, and to dye and finish before glue up.

Prashun,

My concern with BLO is it's length of time to fully cure. I thought I read somewhere that it takes a very long time for it to fully cure.

The slats are all spaced the same all the way around with 2.25" in between the slats.

Since the crib is being made out of curly maple, I was going to give it a "trace" coat of dye and then sand it back. Any further grain raising after that should be minimal?

Thanks,
Josh

[Prashun Patel]

Using the dye/sand back technique, you will be fairly aggressively sanding off the dye. The grain will be raised again when re-wet. You'd only avoid that by sanding very lightly, which won't get remove the color as required. Since this is what you want, I'd definitely pre-dye/sand the slats before assembly.

I say you TRY the finishing regimen without the dyeing. You might find you get plenty of grain pop. Personally, that technique results in some blotch for me as well as grain pop. My personal aesthetic and ease preference is to just go straight to oil and or topcoat. You have to know yr piece to determine where the balance is between blotch control and curl pop.

The BLO need not take a long time to cure. Don't pour it on the surface; just moisten a rag with it and rub it in. You only need to color the top layer. I've BLO'd and topcoated in the same day this way.

[Josh Rudolph]

Would I be better off with a NGR dye? I have to remotely match in color a dresser I made a few years ago. At the same time I really want to accentuate the curl.

I may fight the wife on this one and keep it natural and use an oil to really bring out the figure.

[Scott Holmes]

Josh,

Before I comment on the BLO and or shellac... FYI - BLO cures in ideal conditions in ~24 hours.

What color do you want when finished?
What type of wood are you using? "Curl" I'm gussing maple but need more info.

As stated Waterlox is a high quality VARNISH. Displacing the air in the can with CO2, Bloxygen, argon gas, or propane gas will stop Waterlox or any varnish from curing skinning over or gelling in the can. Putting it in a smaller container with little to no air in the container will work too. I'm using Waterlox Marine that has had Bloxygen in the 1/2 full can for a year. Still good as new.

[Josh Rudolph]

Josh,
What color do you want when finished?
What type of wood are you using? "Curl" I'm gussing maple but need more info.

Sorry about that, that would be pertinent info huh?

Color should be a light Pecan color. I used general finishes pecan stain last time with mixed results.
The wood is Curly Maple.

I have never used Waterlox, but am not against it either. Just have always had good luck with General Finishes for the most part and never really ventured out.

[Scott Holmes]

Pigment stains don't work well on maple especially curly maple.

TransTint liquid dye concentrates or TransFast water soluable powered dyes are both very good.

Waterlox will give you an nice amber color because it is a phenolic resin varnish as apposed to a urethane or alkyd resin varnish. Phenolic resin varnishes are harder than urethane or alkyd resin varnishes. Urethane being the toughest and the softest of the three. (many polys have alkyd resins in them to make them harder)

Run through your entire finishing schedule on scrap Use a piece large enough to see what's going on... little 4"x8" samples don't show enough area...

On curly maple a light dye then sanding it back a bit, will pop the curl and usually doesn't produce "blotch".

[Josh Rudolph]

I forgot to mention another option for a topcoat is Target coatings em2000. I have a gallon of it.

Since it is water based, I would need a layer of shellac I guess.

I dyed a few pieces with transtint and got the color I want. I then hit each with multiple coats of shellac. I am now top coating with arm-r-seal, em2000, and waterlox when I am able to get some. The shellac really brought out the curl.

Question about shellac...how many coats? What are the risk of too much? Do I loose anything if using an oil topcoat and I applied many coats of shellac?

My biggest problem is I am getting paralyses through analysis. It is my first time working with curly maple and am looking at a few different methods of finishing. All ones I have never done.

[Scott Holmes]

Shellac is a different finish than varnish. The thinnest posible shellac finish that is flawless is best (as the only finish). Too much shellac and the surface will alligator. Have you ever seen old finiture that alligatored? Most likely too much shellac.

[Josh Rudolph]

Thanks Scott. I did not know about the alligatoring with shellac. That is good to know.

I am really starting to lean towards the dye, blo, and waterlox or arm-r-seal as a topcoat for the schedule. Simple and straight forward with good results.

Do you have any experience with Target EM2000? It is water based, but what I have put Down so far on my test pieces, I like better than the arm-r-seal. If I were to try and topcoat with that, I would need a layer of shellac also.

[Scott Holmes]

I don't use EM2000, so I don't know for sure. The shellac will pop the color better than most water-borne finishes. Check to see if you can use DE-WAXED shellac under EM6000 I suspect you can. Water-borne in general are not as durable as the oil based finishes. Cribs get some pretty harsh cleaners on them.