Shaper questions

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I'm considering buying a shaper and using it as both a router and shaper. I've been over some info about routers vs shapers and I understand that the shaper spins at a lower rotation speed and that I will probably need to buy larger diameter router bits or more expensive shaper bits to compensate. As a shaper, I will use it to make picture frames, and panels for cabinets and doors. So now we get to my questions

1) I've heard people talk about safety issues with shapers that people don't seem to worry about with routers (e.g. buying fancy feeders). Is this simply some people being more safety conscious or is there a fundamental difference between the tools that I'm not aware of? Please distinguish between using the shaper as a shaper vs using the shaper as a router. For instance is it just because shaper bits are bigger and tend to be more violent?

2) The two models I'm looking at are the new Jet 2HP vs the older Jet 3HP. I notice that they cost about the same. Does anyone know any compelling reason to buy the 2HP model?

Thanks for the help,
Jonathan

[Richard Wolf]

First your second ? A 2 hp shaper is much more powerful than a 2 hp router. The shaper will produse much more torque than a router.
Which will also answer your first ? The torque is what presents the danger. Also with the cutter heads being much larger there is a greater chance of a grab.
Being saftey minded helps, but down the road that over confidence creeps in and hopefully your hands will be behind the cutter.

[lou sansone]

I have a 3 hp delta shaper and use both shaper tooling and router bits in it. I started with a router table and router and moved to the shaper. I also had the same questions that you have. I suppose technically it is true that you need a larger diameter bit for the slower shaper which has a top speed of 10000 rpm as opposed to 20,000 on many routers. I really have not noticed much difference between the two set-ups. I build "one off" furniture and don't run molding like a mill work shop would. For a mill work shop that does thousands of feet you would not be happy with the speed of the router bits in the shaper. But if you are only building furniture like I do then you will have no problem. At least this is my .02 worth

[Rob Russell]

Jonathan,

Welcome to SMC!

Shapers and router tables each have their places.

For small cuts, a router table is easily adequate. Where a shaper has an advantage is when you are trying to run large profiles, where large is either a deep or tall cut. Shaper cutters have significantly more mass than a comparable router bit. That mass means the cutter will stay at speed better and, especially if a power feeder is uses, will likely yield a more consistent cut than stock hand fed into a router. A shaper can spin a cutter that will produce a deeper profile. A shaper also has the cutter bolted on vs. clamped into a collet.

A shaper can also be the most dangerous machine in the shop. I say that because of the force that a 3HP shaper can create in a 2 pound, 4" diameter cutter spinning a 9K RPM. That cutter can create a kickback that's worse than a table saw, mostly because of the momentum of the cutter based on that mass.

You can use a shaper as a router. The bit won't spin quite as fast, but it won't slow down either. A router has a no-load speed of 22K. Under load that router will slow down to 15-18K rpm - you can hear it. The shaper won't slow down - a 3HP induction motor will keep that little router bit spinning.

If you are doing a lot of panels, the shaper will offer advantages like the ability to cut longer profiles. If the picture frame profiles are small and delicate, I'd say a router table might be easier. If you run a whole range of profiles such as those for big picture frames (and want to cut the primary profiles in a single pass), the shaper will spin a cutter that can cut a much bigger profile.

Shaper cutters cost more. You also have have the capability of getting moulding cutterheads with "insert tooling", where you bolt profile knives into a single head. That means your overall tooling costs drop as you add profiles, because you're just buying knives, not whole cutterheads. Those knives also mean that you can have a spare set for those commonly run profiles so - when you hit a stone that's buried in a piece of wood - you can just swap knives and keep going instead of being out of the water.

If you do get a shaper, I would recommend a power feeder. They allow you to keep your hands away from the cutterhead and mean the stock moves past the cutter at a consistent speed. You can use the setup with a router bit in an accessory spindle that holds router bits.

Holler if any of this doesn't make sense

Rob

[Paul B. Cresti]

Jonathan,
I have both my shop made router table for my PC7518 and a MM 6.6hp 3ph shaper. The shaper can hog off a tremendous amount of stock in one pass a router can not. That is the benefit of the shaper, one pass. It is just as dangerous as any other machine and demands respect. The large cutters it can take can be scary, mine can take about a 7" diam cutter. When I have my crown knives in the cutter head buzzes because of the amount of air it is moving. I have been feeding by hand up to this point, with some VERY solid hold downs. I have just installed a power feeder, which will provide an added safety measure plus a very controlled feed rate in order to obtain perfect & consistent results. I use all of my router bits in my shaper now too. My router table is only used for dados and an occasional rabet.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Thanks everybody for the advice. Based on this advice, I will probably buy a seperate router table and shaper. One of my primary uses for the router is pattern routing, and because of the kickback issue, it sounds like pattern routing on a shaper would be scary, and I don't see how a feeder could be used for this. Does this sound reasonable to folks? I consider the tip of my pinky to be worth more than all the equipment in my shop...

Thanks for the advice,
Jonathan