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Thread: A Hand Built Roubo, and the Education of a Woodworker

  1. #16
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    Sep 2003
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    With Ash as your core lumber I have two words for you "thin shavings". Ash is a bear to plane but the finished surface is amazingly slick. Good luck.
    The means by which an end is reached must exemplify the value of the end itself.

  2. #17
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    Apr 2010
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    You've decided what you're going to build...that's 95% of the battle right there. If I hadn't been caught between the Klausz and the Ruobo style frame I would have built mine a long time ago. I'm a few rips away from a finished benchtop, and I'll probably post the progress too.

    EVERYONE is interested in bench builds.
    It's sufficiently stout..


  3. #18
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    Feb 2011
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    Kamloops, BC
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    David - I built a knock-down version of a Holtzapffel design last year by hand. It was one of my first woodworking projects. The top is ash: 3" x 24" x 84". Four squaring those 14 ash laminations by hand was an excellent apprenticeship in the craft, though one I would be happy not to repeat - if I ever build another bench I think I'll take Bob Rozaieski's lead and use 2 2x12 planks for the top. Working with the ash also made me more appreciative of the workability of the cherry/alder/mahogany/poplar I've been using for furniture projects over the past year.

    I look forward to seeing the build!

    Marc Jones

    IMG_2227.jpg

  4. #19
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    Jul 2010
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    Rockland, ME
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    205
    Marc,

    That's a great looking bench! I love twin screw vise set-ups. You know I feel the same way... this is one of my first projects, too, and it seems the perfect way to acquaint myself with the craft -- lots of simple, basic tasks, repeated seemingly endlessly -- my top will be exactly 14 laminations of ash as well. I'm glad to hear that someone survived the experience.

    Also, you're right... I was working a bit of walnut the other day, and it seemed about a million times easier to work in comparison.

    Thanks for your interest!

    David

  5. #20
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    Jul 2010
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    Rockland, ME
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    Thanks so much to everyone for all of the encouraging feedback. I'm glad to hear it's of interest to someone but myself. I also really appreciate hearing about your bench builds -- I really find them helpful and interesting.

    Anyway, I spent a good while going through the wood pile and marking up the boards. I have 226bf, but I was still a little worried about not having enough. This process put my mind at ease.

    IMG_0799.jpg IMG_0797.jpg IMG_0783.jpg

    After I got the leg pieces cut roughly to size, I worked out the different work holding rigs I'd need to secure my work to the benchtop for hand planing.

    Figuring out how to handle the wide flat faces was obvious. A 1"x6"x8' board of commercial pine clamped to the bench to act as a backstop, and a small, random piece of poplar, also clamped, acting as an end stop. How to hold work while working its long edges required a more complicated workaround. First, I cut out a few holes on the underside of the torsion box benchtop. My idea was to be able to use a couple of F-clamps to hold my work up against the side of the top. It does work pretty well, but it's a little awkward, and I'm limited in what width boards I can hold. As an alternative, I mounted a couple of 2"x6" pieces onto a couple of heavy gauge 6"x3" angle irons. I simply clamp this rig to the table top and then clamp my work to it. I wish they didn't take so long to set up, but they do exactly what I need them to do.

    IMG_0782.jpg IMG_0781.jpg IMG_0779.jpg

    All ready to start planing!

    Thanks for reading,

    David

  6. #21
    Hi David,

    It's good to see another New Yorker here. I'm on Long Island...well I guess we both are, haha. Anyway, that looks like a great project you have going there. I'd like to get to building a bench one of these days, so any posts on the subject are great to read. I'm thinking of using old doug fir lumber and maybe pressure treated souther yellow pine (for the base) I have laying around, but we'll see.

    Anyway, that looks like a bit of work doing that all by hand. Is that your goal, or is it strictly a matter of resources and space? If it's the tools and space, you could try finding a local lumber yard that might be willing to plane some of the boards down. There should be a bunch in Brooklyn. If I had more tools (like a planer/jointer), I'd offer to help you out. But, I'm just getting into woodworking myself, and I only have a small table saw, miter saw, some old hand planes, and a few cheap chisels. Have you thought about buying one of those cheap portable table saws and cutting up on the roof (if you're allowed)? I have a small portable Ryobi that I use when I'm doing some construction work. It's not terribly accurate (sliding miter guage is useless basically), but it's new and still does the job good enough. We picked up the floor model at Home Depot for $125 (about $50 or so off regular price).

    Joe
    Last edited by Joe Fabbri; 06-29-2011 at 9:33 PM.

  7. #22
    I hope you have more clamps than I see in your photos

  8. #23
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    Apr 2010
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    savannah
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    Wooden jaw style clamps are good for edge work if you don't have a bench. Resting the clamp on it's side and clamping one jaw to the table makes a nice little work holder and is easy to adjust, and take pieces in and out. It's like having a vise.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Wadstrup View Post
    How to hold work while working its long edges required a more complicated workaround. First, I cut out a few holes on the underside of the torsion box benchtop. My idea was to be able to use a couple of F-clamps to hold my work up against the side of the top. It does work pretty well, but it's a little awkward, and I'm limited in what width boards I can hold. As an alternative, I mounted a couple of 2"x6" pieces onto a couple of heavy gauge 6"x3" angle irons. I simply clamp this rig to the table top and then clamp my work to it. I wish they didn't take so long to set up, but they do exactly what I need them to do.

    IMG_0782.jpg IMG_0781.jpg IMG_0779.jpg

    All ready to start planing!

    Thanks for reading,

    David
    It's sufficiently stout..


  9. #24
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    Jul 2010
    Location
    Rockland, ME
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    Hi Joe,

    Thanks for the offer of help. To answer your question... Yes. I am limited in space, and the need to keep dust and noise to a minimum, but the goal is to work with only hand tools. I find that I enjoy working with them more. Although, I can't say that I'm loving all of the hand sawing that I've been having to do. At an average of 8 minutes a linear foot, it takes me about 45 minutes just to rip a 6' board. In other words, a TON of sawing. I figure, though, that it's good formative practice. Still, I think my work after the bench is done will be limited to smaller pieces of furniture and carcases.

    I just got out to Long Island for the holiday weekend. It's beautiful out here!

    Thanks,

    David

  10. #25
    Hi David,

    Yeah, the long ripping must be the hardest. Except for long rips and compound miters, you can't beat hand tools really--so much more control and more relaxing.

    Anyway, yeah, Long Island has some really nice spots, especially if you head up to the North Shore, and check out the old Gold Coast. There's so many beautiful mansion here and there (some you can tour still). The architectural and wood work in some are really amazing, Old World quality. After all, they used to bring many craftsmen from Europe to do the work.

    Well, I hope you enjoy your time out here.

    Joe

  11. #26
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Wadstrup View Post
    Although, I can't say that I'm loving all of the hand sawing that I've been having to do. At an average of 8 minutes a linear foot, it takes me about 45 minutes just to rip a 6' board. In other words, a TON of sawing.
    David - Something sounds a bit "off". Even in ash, you should be able to get a lot more than 1.5 inches per minute at a comfortable pace. My thought is that you might have several contributing factors:

    1) Your saw may be dull, have the wrong tooth geometry, have too much set, or may be too fine. To test sharpness, run your finger along the teeth in the direction of the cutting action - it should feel sharp enough that you have to be careful about not cutting your skin. Tooth geometry is critical when ripping - if you don't have a rip-filed saw, or the rake is too relaxed, it will radically slow down the speed of cutting. Take a look at the set - if the kerf is much more than the sawplate thickness when the saw is in the cut, you may be removing 1-1/2 times to 2 times more wood than you need to, and the speed of the cut is directly proportional to the amount of wood you're removing. Finally, you want a full-sized panel saw (typically 26") with no finer than a 7 tpi pitch, and more like 5 tpi would be considerably better.

    2) You're sawing in the wrong position. This sounds basic, but is often overlooked by budding handsawyers. You really must have a saw bench, or some other means of holding the work that is no higher than about 2-3" below you knee height when standing. Sawing on a work-bench height bench is OK for an over-hand rip of a couple of feet, but is extremely slow compared to using a sawbench.

    3) You have too much saw in the kerf. This is related to #2, above, in that when in the rip cut your saw should be stroking at about a 70-80 degree angle to the floor. Laying the saw back to 50 degrees is good for steering a wayward cut, but is highly inefficient for doing the whole cut because many more teeth are in the kerf than need be.

    Finally, here's a thought - using a handsaw to rip boards to the proper width is not the only way to do it. Particularly with very hard woods such as maple and hickory (and probably ash), it can be a whole lot faster and a lot less tiring to use a jointer to joint one edge and one face straight and true, and a plow plane with a narrow (1/8", or 1/16" if you can get it) blade to "cut" the board to the proper width. If the board is only 1/4" - 1/2" away for its proper width, another very effective technique is to use a scrub, jack or fore plane with a highly curved (cambered) iron to take the extra width off as shavings.

  12. #27
    Join Date
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    At an average of 8 minutes a linear foot, it takes me about 45 minutes just to rip a 6' board.
    +1 on what David Keller NC said.

    My guess is you may have a saw filed for crosscutting.

    A sharp saw filed for rip cutting will make all the difference in the world.

    I cut a 4/4 X 10 foot ash board in 15 minutes with a sharp 6 ppi saw. The rake was at 8°.

    Sharpening another saw to 4 ppi with 5° rake did not improve the speed much. It did make for a bit tougher task. Some day I may redo that saw with a few more points per inch.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #28
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    Mar 2008
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    Pennington, NJ 08534
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Keller NC View Post
    Finally, here's a thought - using a handsaw to rip boards to the proper width is not the only way to do it. Particularly with very hard woods such as maple and hickory (and probably ash), it can be a whole lot faster and a lot less tiring to use a jointer to joint one edge and one face straight and true, and a plow plane with a narrow (1/8", or 1/16" if you can get it) blade to "cut" the board to the proper width.
    David, that's thinking out of the box. I am always looking for easier ways to rip long boards and am curious how you do that.

    Thanks.

    Steve

  14. +1 on the plow plane. It works really well. It's quieter and cleaner (particulary if you work inside your house !) than hand saw ripping although probably not as much fun.

  15. #30
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Nielsen View Post
    +1 on the plow plane. It works really well. It's quieter and cleaner (particulary if you work inside your house !) than hand saw ripping although probably not as much fun.
    Isn't the cut limited by the depth of the fence (distance from fence to blade)?

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