Caution using Azek glue.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have used hundreds of thousands worth af Azek product, and until yesterday never had a reaction from the glue. Yesterday I did.

I was gluing up some newel posts that will recieve 1/2" tempered glass for rails, so they are hollow to allow a 1 1/2" aluminum square stock to do the work in the middle. As such there are four sides, and four splines that have to be glued. I ended up with the wrong type of gloves, but Azek glue has never really bothered me so I went ahaed as it is a 110 mile trip to get some gloves made from butyl rubber.

I worked twelve hours, and I washed my hands every time I got a newel glued up and in the press. Did sixteen newels, so was exposed a fair amount of times.

On the way home I noticed that my fingertips looked like I had been in a bath too long, and had a numb feeling. It got worse. I was supposed to do a drawing when I got home to send out to an engineer for approval, and I could not hold a drawing pencil, my hands hurt that much. I was not able to sleep very well as my hands kept me awake, and today they are slightly better but still very painful.

Just wanted to give everyone a heads up, and take the time to find butyl rubber gloves if you are doing much gluing with Azek glue.


Larry

[Peter Pedisich]

Larry, thanks very much for the heads up. Hope it gets better soon.
This was very timely for me as I'm going to help a friend dress some porch columns with Azek next week.

Let us know how it goes.

-Pete

[John R Green]

Larry,
Were you using the Azek brand glue or regular PVC cement?
I have a small project coming soon with Azek.
Want to learn from your experience.
Thanks for sharing.
Think it would help to call the national Poison Control Hot Line to make sure you don't have any other residual effects?
For a poison emergency in the U.S. call 1-800-222-1222
John

[Phil Thien]

Thanks for the heads-up on this Larry. It is stories like this that really reinforce the warnings on the labels for me.

[Larry Edgerton]

Just looked at the box of gloves in the van. They say they are butyl, but being as they disolved I would say they are not. I picked up some from Napa yesterday and they worked fine. Saving money bit me again. Fingers are better this morning, will be fine by tomorrow I'm sure.

John

PVC GLUE DOES NOT WORK!

I use gallons of the stuff and if there was a cheaper alternative that worked I would use it. PVC glue will stick it together, sort of, but there is no strength. With Azek glue the joint is stronger than the material. I tested several options that I read of people using, and none do as good a job. On the internet 47.5% of what you read is misinformation, and 47.5% is lies. Consider the cost of the material and a can of the correct glue is inconsequential compared to the cost of a failure. I may spend a half a day on one period reproduction moulding, and I am not going to take a chance with my reputation that something cheaper not intended for this product will work.

I will give you one very important tip: Make sure that the Azek you install can move! Do not have solid backing close to a miter, figure out ways it can float. All of the failures I see are because of this. Keep the temp. in mind as you work. If it is 95 degrees do not fit it tight because when the temp drops it will pull itself apart. I do a lot of slip joints in my work. For example I made some reproduction columns for an Italianate. They of course had steel in the center for actual support, so the columns had to be able to move. The capitals and bases were fit tight but screwed to the deck and beam respectively so that there was never a gap, the columns were free to slide up and down inside the finishing pieces.

You can fit Azek tight to itself, as in applied mouldings, but if it is backed by a solid material it needs room to move. An example is freeze and barge boards. Because they are long they will move a lot. I usually install Azek over foam board because I am making old houses tighter, and in that case I will smash the foam where the Azek will go back about a foot and a half from the corner, and run my Azek straight. This allows it to grow and shrink without pulling itself apart. If it is a longer run, I will take out as much as a quarter inch fom the back of the Azek , again about a foot and a half back from the corner so the board can move and not pull the miter apart. If it is a really hot day, I will actually push the corner out a bit past straight when I install it so that when it gets to be 50 below it does not pull itself a part. Fasten the corner to itself at the miter, but do not put any fasteners into the framing in that same foot and a half from the corner.

You have to think like Azek if you will. Its a great material, but contrary to the advertising hype, you have to think a little different than wood. Wood grow/shrinks very little along the grain. Azek shrinks exactly the same along the length per inch as it does its width, and you need to compensate for that. I have seen long runs[80-100'] pull themselves apart and fall on the ground. Interestingly, the boards broke not on the glue joints, but in the middle. I figure 30' to be about the max without some sort of slip joint. On long barge boards I will run the corners all the way down and route a slip joint into the back of the corner so the long run can move without being seen.

I recommend using GRK trim screws with the reversing thread. Azek will follow any imperfections. With the GRK's you can put the screw in reverse and straighten out the piece. Yes they are expensive, but we are not working on mobile homes here.

I have found "Big Stretch" caulk to be the most compatable with the working properties of Azek. Other caulks will dry and start to show stretch marks within a year as Azek moves with the season.

I use Sherman Williams adhesion promoting primer on everything. Paint companys will claim that their paint will stick, but a lot of that is just sales talk. I use Grahams ceramic as a final coat, cleans easy, holds color, and works well. Sand the surface with 220 fairly quickly to get some small grooves for the paint to grab on to, wipe down with something to get finger oils off, I use Prepsol, and spray away. This last part is important. Unlike wood that will absorb oils into the interior, on Azek it will set right on the top and make your paint fail. Failures are bad.....


Gotta get to work......

Larry

[Chip Lindley]

Thanks Larry! Great treatise on Azek. I know the stuff is expensive even before any custom labor is involved. Failure cannot be tolerated. Knowing the "in's and out's" heads off disaster at the pass!

[michael case]

Larry,
Thanks for the warning. Sounds nasty! Hope your ok.