Is the Klausz-Frid-Scand Bench Dead?

[harry strasil]

I just built my bench to fit in what space I had for one and didn't follow or copy anyones design, just started putting it together with modifications as needed as it progressed. I have as many vises on one bench as some would have on several. But it fits the way I work and so far it has done everything I asked of it and then some. The vises I use the most are the leg vise and the Columbian clone of an Emmert. But the clamping method I prefer the most is the bench dogs and wedge system. Like has already been stated, a bench is just a tool, most likely the most used tool in a woodworking shop, but its still a tool. Just build it to suit yourself and put it to work, and ENJOY it.

Just my 2¢ worth.

[John Coloccia]

My Sjobergs Elite 2000 has flush legs. Does that make it a Roubo? LOL.

I happen to work at my local Woodcraft a few hours a week. I see LOTS of woodworkers of all level of skill, with all manner of interest...seasoned pros and amateurs alike. Know how many have ever heard of SMC? Not many. Know how many of them read the magazines? Not many. Ask your buddies who Sam Maloof is....Tage Frid....Frank Klausz....Roubo even. How about all the BORG woodworkers? Think they know they're not supposed to use saw horses, a piece of plywood and some squeeze clamps as a workbench? Shoot, if you screw a Harbor Freight vice to it you got a FANCY workbench. They sharpen their chisels on a grinder...no stones, no strops. I bet they don't even check the edges with a machinists square. The horror!

This reminds me of the stuff I read on the engineering message boards. Every so often there's the prediction of the death of C++, for example. ROFLMAO. The problem is that people like me, who make a living engineering as opposed to writing about engineering, drive which technology lives and dies and I have neither the time nor the will to get into a debate about which tools are most philosophically pleasing to theoreticians and/or "technologists" with an axe to grind (or a buck to make). Here again, most engineers do nothing at all with any of the message boards...I skim every so often (maybe once or twice a year) when I'm looking for an answer to a problem. I don't even have a membership anywhere.

So take what you read, including all of this, with a healthy dose of skepticism and go build the bench you want. This isn't the real world, and the magazines aren't the real world. In this little elite corner of the woodworking world we've built for ourselves (and really, as neanders we're sitting under a lint ball in the corner), we're all mostly full of hot air, at best....myself certainly included. These discussions are supposed to be fun and stimulating, and maybe even educational. Something has gone awry when we start feeling like our choice of workbench is inadequate because the woodworking cognoscenti say so.

[Frank Drew]

My only real wish is that I wish it was about two feet longer, but then I would have to sacrifice space.

You bring up an interesting point, Casey: I think for the most part we're designing and building (or buying) a bench for the workspace we're in at the moment, so it has to fit that particular space and work well with everything else that's going on in that space (tooling, workflow, etc.). It would be impractical to design a "perfect" bench for some imagined shop we might or might not move into somewhere in the future.

I agree with what Jim Galvin and others have said, in the traditional way of thinking the point really isn't the workbench, it's what the workbench allows us to do, or helps us to do. The bench is the means to an end, not the end in itself.

[Jim Koepke]

Tool tray or not tool tray, that is the question...

Leg vise, shoulder vise, twin screw too... Wagon vise, tail vise what's one to do?

A slab of wood, some sturdy legs
as long as it won't move
while planing stock,
rabbeting
or when I cut a groove

As long as one can do their work without fighting the bench the bench is fine.

There is not one bench for all. It is as individual a choice as one's preferred hand plane.

My father made a bench in the 1950's. It served him well into the 1990's. It didn't suit my needs so a friend now has it.

It was made for working on mechanical equipment. That is what it is mostly used for today.

The bench should be designed for the purpose and the person. The person and work should not need to be altered to accommodate the bench.

A shoulder vise doesn't fit my way of working. For others, my bench may not provide the features they need.

The bench of my design may have some features of one "famous named" bench or another, but I am not bothering to make it true to anyone's dreams but my own.

jtk

[Jared McMahon]

I made a few pretty complete plans for a Klausz-style bench before switching gears and doing the same with the Roubo design. I ended up making a very simple sturdy Roubo, which I'm very glad I did since my woodworking interests are still shifting substantially. Flexibility was near or at the top of my priority list and the bench I built fits the bill.

It seems like a person would be wise to look at the type of work they want to do and build the bench design that best facilitates that. But with that said, some of the furniture projects I would love to do aren't really useful and practical for me, they would just be really fun to do. You could look at a bench in the same way; if you want to make a Klausz bench because it looks fun, do it. If it doesn't fit your work style, sell it and build a different one.

And I have to contribute my own IT analogy. My last workplace was a very stayed and old-school academic environment, I worked with a bunch of UNIX gurus who thought Java was completely useless and worthless. Now I work in a Java shop and see it used extremely effectively for all kinds of things. Even if a particular tool is only marginally better suited to your needs than others, once you get good with it you can often find ways to tackle an impressive array of challenges.

This post is getting rambly, I'm gonna stop now.

[Roy Lindberry]

Hello all,

Someone noted that everybody loves a thread on building a bench (just like you can't have too many clamps?). I'm planning to migrate this thread to SMC:
http:// forums.finewoodworking.com/fi...and-bench-dead
(Remove the space after // when copying into your browser.)

I'll continue updates here as i make progress, slow as it might be.

Cheers,
Chris C.

Out of curiosity, does anybody here know how to pronounce "Tage Frid"? I can think of about six different ways it could go.

[John Coloccia]

Out of curiosity, does anybody here know how to pronounce "Tage Frid"? I can think of about six different ways it could go.

Close to "Tay Freed".

[Don Dorn]

Another phrase that should be heard, "it takes using a bench to know what one wants from their bench."

In my opinion, a bench should expand abilities, not limit them.

jtk

Agree completely. I'll never say that my current one is my last, but I"m pretty close. I'll move the face vice out to the end next time so I can cross cut from the front, but I built it based on the two statements you made. It's not a dead copy of an existing design, but rather what I need and use.

[Jim Foster]

I think if hand-cut dovetails and casework were my main wookworking effort, I would build a Klausz type bench. With the Roubo being one big clamp-able cube, it's more suited to all-around woodworking use.

[Casey Gooding]

I have heard that he pronounced it "Tay" like John posted. Everyone else I've met pronounced it "Tah-guh".

[Bob Lang]

I heard him explain it as rhyming with "Hey Kid"

Bob Lang

[Gary Curtis]

After reading this, I'm willing to reconsider on my attraction to the Roubu bench. If I wanted something more Scandinavian in concept, can you recommend a good book? (I have the Christopher Schwarz book). Schleining or Landis?

I'll restate my objections to traditional North Europe designs. Installing a Tail Vise looks intimidating. And people rant about Tail Vises being fragile and sagging.

And I get frustrated by the limited board capacity in a Front Vise.

[Roy Lindberry]

After reading this, I'm willing to reconsider on my attraction to the Roubu bench. If I wanted something more Scandinavian in concept, can you recommend a good book? (I have the Christopher Schwarz book). Schleining or Landis?

I'll restate my objections to traditional North Europe designs. Installing a Tail Vise looks intimidating. And people rant about Tail Vises being fragile and sagging.

And I get frustrated by the limited board capacity in a Front Vise.

Landis has a great chapter on the Klausz bench, along with dimensioned drawings in the back, and a broad overview of the build process.

[Richard Darjes]

If you want a tail vice that works take a look at the new Veritas tail vice from Lee Valley Tools. It is not traditional looking but it sure works - Konrad Sauer has one installed on a travelling bench he takes to wood shows. He has a blog entry from last fall (2010) about the bench and the vice at www.sauerandsteiner.com His bench has traditional looking legs. Another way you could go.

[Larry Williams]

... I like handtools and working at a bench. So I'll build the Ruobo bench from scratch. With a Wagon Vise and Leg Vise and Deadman. Schwarz beautifully breaks down all the varied tasks performed at a workbench. I won't be engaged in more than 40-50% of the jobs he itemizes, but it is clear from reading his book, a Klausz-Frid bench would be useful for only about 15% of those tasks. Some of them quite awkwardly. Moreover, having acquired detailed plans for that bench, some details — particularly mounting a tail vise — had my head spinning.

The Schwarz book is titled : Workbenches - from Design & Theory. A real eye-opener.

Actually, Roubo shows two benches. One for joiners (carpenters) and one for cabinet makers. Unfortunately the joiners' bench with an added "wagon vise" is the one that Chris has popularized. I've worked on a number of the new iterations of the "Roubo bench" and feel the traditional tail vise of a cabinetmaker's bench is far superior and versatile. I've attached an image of Roubo's cabinetmaker's bench.

roubogbnch.jpg