Used vs. new tablesaws?

[Phillip Gregory]

Hello, new to the site and looking to get back into woodworking now that I am finally getting settled down and get to have my own shop for the first time. I will be needing to get a tablesaw and know that I want a good cabinet saw as I will be making furniture. I am very much a "buy what you really need the first time and then forget about it" kind of person and don't like working with cruddy tools. What I have in mind is something along the lines of a 3-5 hp 10" cabinet saw with a GOOD fence system. I have actually never used such a saw before as the nicest saw I have used was a 1970s era Sears 1 hp flexible-drive contractor saw. It was okay for simple stuff like crosscuts in 1" stock but struggled in doing much more than that due to the absolutely horrible rip fence, small stamped-steel extensions, and low-powered motor. The other tablesaws I have used were the little disposable benchtop ones that are roughly a cheap circular saw turned upside down.

The meat of my questions is whether I would do better in getting a used high-end saw like a Delta Unisaw, Powermatic PM66, etc. or getting a less-expensive newer one like the Grizzly G0690/1023R, Steel City 359xx series, etc. I am not trying to neccessarly pinch pennies but don't want to spend $4000 on a tablesaw either. Somewhere in the sub-$2000 range is where I would like to stay. From what I can tell, the advantages of a new saw seem to be:

- If something is broken/doesn't work, you can send it back and get one that works.
- No wear on any parts and no worries about how well a PO used or abused the equipment
- It just shows up at your door a week after you order it
- Newer useful features like riving knives, probably better fences, and better dust collection.

And for a used saw:
- Less expensive, sometimes significantly so.
- Can get a much nicer saw on paper (more powerful, larger tables, etc.) for the same money as new
- Probably better made than newer saws, if you believe the "old 'arn" guys

So, for those of you who have been in my shoes, what did you do and how did it turn out? Did you buy a new saw and think it was cheaply built or wish you had paid half as much and gotten twice the saw in a used saw? Or did you buy an old saw and end up with a basket case?

[David Kumm]

Take a look at the PM 66 listed for sale here. Used saws are cheap, including the 12" Delta- Rockwell 12-14, and PM 72. Fences are usually very good or even Beisemeyer, build quality is high. New saws won't be as well built but will have user friendly economics. Riving knife is important but I've been able to make a substitute that works. I have several used saws but no experience with new Asian so I can't speak for them. Dave

[Stephen Cherry]

Don't fall under the illusion that a new machine will show up ready to go. It will need to be aligned.

And one of the best things about used is if you decide to go in another direction, you should be able to get out of the deal without loosing your shirt. I had a unisaw, and it was fine.

[Cary Falk]

Here is my progression of table saws.

2002 - Sears direct drive bench top saw with legs. The table was not flat. The motor was underpowered. The fence would not lock down straight. I built a lot of stuff with it and worked around all of the problems because it was what I could afford at the time and I would have not built anything if it weren'tfor that saw.

2005 - Delta contractor saw with cast iron wings and a T2 fence. It was a great saw. It was a definite upgrade from the Sears saw. The tables were flat. The fence locked down square each and every time.The motor had enougt power for most tasks. The only thing I did not like was the dust collection and the fact that blade would go out of alignment if it was tilted.

2008 - Bought a used 1970 Unisaw fixerupper. I bought into the Unisaw legend/hype. After replacing broken parts, bunged up arbor, and totally disassembled the saw to free all of the seized up parts it was an ok saw. All of this work is not that out of the ordinary if you look at the sheer number of Unisaw threads on OWWM. Is this really a quality tool after <40 years of life? After using it I was not impressed. The handles rattled, dust collection sucked and it had what is referred to as the Uni clunk at startup. But as with the other saws, I built stuff with it.

2011 - I bought G1023RL for the riving knife and better dust collection. When I got it I gave it a hard once over to try to convince myself that the non Grizzly owners and OWWM people were right and this saw is junk. You can do a search for my review in this forum. I plan on keeping this saw. The build quality is there. The fit and finish is there. After a year and a half, it operates as quiet and smooth as it did on the first day and smoother than the Uni ever was. The riving knife is so much better than the splitter was.

I have never used a PM66. I hear they are heavier built than a Uni. I am sure they will last a lifetime or 4. Will my Grizzly last that long? I don't know. I have seen people that their 25 year 1023 is still going strong. Grizzly's quality wasn't near as good then as it is now. It will last as long as a Uni. My Uni wouldn't have lasted one lifetime if I had not torn it apart and replaced a bunch of stuff. It will last my lifetime plus some and I will have gotten my money's worth out of it

My point as I said in another thread. Buy what makes you happy. You can't really go wrong with a PM66, Uni, G0690, G1023RL, Delta 12/14, PM74, Sawstop, Jet, or Steel City, etc cabinet saw. Everybody seems to be happy with their cabinet saws whatever name is on them.

[Mike Cutler]

If you're willing to spend $2K you can find higher quality used, old iron, versus new. You just have to wait.
The three new saws you mention will all be nice saws that you won't be able to blame your mistakes on. Any of these saws with an after market fence system will do everything you will need to build your own furniture in your shop.
I have a General International hybrid and a Jet contractor with A JessEm Mast-R-Slide and an Excaliber fence system. They do what I need them too, and your choices are technically better machines.

[J.R. Rutter]

If you buy used, the biggest thing is to make sure that it is in good running order. Like Cary mentioned, there is nothing magical about a beat up old saw that will likely never run like new again. A little stiffness in the adjustments can be cleaned and lubed away, but vibration is more difficult to cure. I've had PM66, General 350, and Unisaw - all used and abused to a certain extent. They all got the job done, but none was perfect. Personally, I would be tempted to go new unless you find a cherry on the used market.

[Peter Quinn]

I voted used, but the caveat is if you can find a decent used machine in your area. I would rather have a new grizzly than some beat down junk going for top dollar. I searched for three years for a good used machine, finally bought a new Pm 66, couldn't be happier.... Unless I'd bought a new Hammer slider, but that was not in the budget.

[Mark Ashmeade]

I've had a RIDGID TS3660, RIDGID R4511, PM66 and PM72.

No riving knife on the 3660, and the splitter was inconvenient. Not very powerful, and no dust collection to speak of. But it did have a lovely fence.

R4511 had a tiny table, and a split fence rail. Not very powerful either, but dust collection was OK.

PM66 and 72 were used and worn. Too much money, and more importantly, time, would have gone into those to get them to be where I wanted them. And still no riving knife or blade guard DC. Blade guard at all, for that matter.

I now have a Sawstop PCS. Everything I didn't like about all the others is fixed. There's nothing I don't like about this saw.

YMMV, and your usage may be different to mine. But I have been through many stages to get to where I am, and I am very happy with my TS.

[george newbury]

If you can dedicate time to searching Craigs List, auctions, etc. and wait to get what you want by all means buy used. But what is your time worth?

I probably spend up to an hour a day looking for things on those sites for things I need. I've recently bought 10 sections of lightly used pallet racking for $100 that goes normally for about $3000 used. A Stihl 088 chainsaw and accesories for $450 that easily matches ones sold for $1000 on ebay. But I've been looking for a 20" planer for months.

If my time was really worth $$ I probably spent at least $3000 looking for those and other things. But I'm retired, I do it while listening/watching the news.

I'd vote to look for used for a little bit, but if you don't find one soon buy quality new on sale that met your minimal needs. And still keep an eye open open for that grand bargain. You can always sell the new one you bought.

As far as MY tablesaw (about a 1950's or 1960's Delta) goes, I inherited it from my father who inherited it from his father.

[Joe Angrisani]

In my opinion it really all comes down to the riving knife. New saw, whether a $1500 Grizzly or a $4000 SawStop, will have a true riving knife and all the anti-kickback safety that goes along with it. A used saw will not.

That said, I love my early left-tilt Unisaw. For $900 I got a 5hp single phase motor, a full 50"/52" Beissey fence, a few blades, a dado set, AND a Porter-Cable 7518 Router in a Jessem lift in the extension table. The router and lift arguably drives the net saw price down to $500-600, not counting the blades I got, and for me that makes the argument for used a no-brainer. You simply can't come close buying new.

The only new saw I'd consider would be a SawStop. But I outfitted my whole shop, including a 3hp cyclone, for less than the big SawStop alone would cost. And in my world. cost does matter.

[Jeff Duncan]

I'm a fan of used myself, everything I've bought new has disappointed....and has since been replaced, but I also demand a lot from my machines. Used is a great way to go since it can save you a LOT of money, but also has downsides as others have mentioned. If your handy with machinery in general, and have the time to wait for the "right" machine to come around, then used can be a great option. If your less handy and just want to get to work, than new may be the way to go. I also spend time daily looking on C-list and e-bay as well as a couple other sites even when I'm not actively looking for something. Lastly tablesaws are pretty basic as far as woodworking machines go. If you can test the saw before buying...which I highly recommend, it's unlikely you would end up with a basket case. If you buy at auction there's a lot more risk, though usually much cheaper too! I bought 2 Unisaws and a Wadkin 12" all untested and there was little required to get them running....YMMV

good luck,
JeffD

[Mike Henderson]

There have been some significant safety devices added to new saws recently, most notably the riving knife and the flesh sensing technology. Both significantly help to protect you from injury. While a new saw, such as a SawStop, is more expensive than an older, used saw, getting injured on a table saw can be a life altering event and wind up costing you a LOT more than the cost of the saw.

Mike

[Joe Angrisani]

....most notably the riving knife and the flesh sensing technology. Both significantly help to protect you from injury. While a new saw, such as a SawStop, is more expensive than an older, used saw, getting injured on a table saw can be a life altering event and wind up costing you a LOT more than the cost of the saw.

And there are plenty of tools in our shops that can hurt us just the same. Common sense and safe practices will always be viable alternatives.

[Jay Rasmussen]

If cash is not an issue I would go with a new Professional or Industrial SawStop. The safety feature is a plus but the saw looks like it’s really well built.

[Bill Huber]

I agree with Joe, if I had the money I would get a new Saw Stop.
I like new things, that way I don't have to worry about what someone else screwed up.
It is nice to have a nice new clean tool to start with, then I can screw it up myself.