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Thread: First Entry door project . . . help?

  1. #1
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    First Entry door project . . . help?

    My wife wants a new entry door and has picked a Mission style door she likes with a single side panel. We like qswo for the material. It's a standard 36" door so that helps a little I guess. I know this stuff is heavy. I've uploaded the door picture she found, but just pretend the panel on the right isn't there.

    I'm thinking about using 10/4 material and have begun the search. That should finish up to around 2" thickness. The panels I suppose could be 4/4?

    Where do I start? I've been reviewing all of the similar threads on this site. Should I go buy Norms video or whatever? I get that wood expands in width and not really in length. I also understand that the panels should float. Actually, I cut apart an old kitchen cabinet door and it had little rubber stops on each side to allow for panel expansion. Should I be looking for something like this?

    Are there rail and stile router bit sets for something this large?

    We've located a source for the glass and have picked a hardware set already.

    The door sets back about 8ft from the roof line so only sees sun for about an hour on summer evenings (about the bottom 3 ft anyway). It's pretty protected from the rain unless it's really blowing, which is pretty unusual. It snowed here twice in the last 20 years, so that's not an issue. The temp ranges from 32F to 110F, depending. Humidity from around 15% to raining.

    Taking any and all advice.

    Regards,
    Larry
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  2. #2
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    Making an entry is a series of fairly simple but precise steps. Start with a drawing, either digital or long hand. Draw the elevations, draw the plan, draw the relevant sections at each intersection. The glass parts to the left/right of the door in an entry are called side lites for reference. You can break the thing down into a few simple stages. There is stock selection which is critical, stock preparation, which is easier with large equipment, particularly a long jointer given the size of the parts involved, there is joinery, assembly, sanding, sanding, sanding, sanding......oh and finishing. Freud makes an entry door router bit set that looks good, Amana makes one too IIR. You can also make this style of door square edge with little more than a TS and dado set, then apply a simple router made molding to dress it up.

    Frankly the jamb, or door lining, the threshold, and the weatherstripping involved is more complicated than the door or side lite construction. The door/side lite is simply a large frame and panel unit. It helps to have a stout helper when assembling and working a 2" thick oak door. Either some one who really likes you, or some one you really don't care for will do nicely. Flipping that door is going to hurt. Resource Conservation Technology has some pretty decent gaskets you can install with a thin kerf saw blade, and they sell some sweeps of different types for the bottom.

    I can't recommend specific construction methods not knowing your shop tools available, but M&T is strong and reliable, loose tenons can be a simple option if you are set up to make them that deep, dowels are a reasonable method, particularly for the non operational side lite, but can also work for the door if done well. I'm talking 1/2" X 5 1/2" exterior dowel pins, not little furniture type stuff from the local wood craft.

    Here is a link that demonstrates the use of the Freud set. http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/...nch-doors.aspx

    There are lots of good door making discussions here in the archives, and a fairly recent one on page two presently with a few nice pictorial reviews of the process, so check that out too.
    Last edited by Peter Quinn; 08-07-2012 at 9:15 PM. Reason: thought

  3. #3
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    Thanks Peter,

    I have read several of your posts on doors and you do seem to have quite a lot of experience with it. I appreciate the comments.

    I'm sort of an intermediate level woodworker, I suppose. I have a Unisaw (with outfeed table), a bench dog cast iron router table & bench dog lift. This has a pc 7815 router in it. I also have an Agazzani 20" bandsaw, a Festool 1400 plunge router, A Festool jig saw, plus other assorted tools (disk/belt sander, spindle sander). I also have a Jet 15" planer. I do have a pretty nice dado set and 2 crappy ones :-)

    I don't have a jointer, which might be important. I'll be looking for material with one straight edge. So far the Woodworker II blade has cut well enough I haven't needed anything else.

    I'll be doing M&T joints.

    I don't have any extra friends, so I'll be sure to treat the ones I have as nicely as possible. One in particular has helped me unload 2 bandsaws on 2 separate occasions - without asking. His wife took my wife to Mexico for a week, but then she brought her back.

    Again, thanks for the help!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gipson View Post

    I don't have a jointer, which might be important. I'll be looking for material with one straight edge. So far the Woodworker II blade has cut well enough I haven't needed anything else.

    I'll be doing M&T joints.
    My guess is you can get material flattened in your area by a good lumber yard or local millwork shop. The place I work does this for others all the time. Contractors, ambitious amateur wood workers, other door shops short on labor or that don't have as big a jointer. I flattened a pile of material just today for a small local shop. So it would be helpful to develop a sub for that, its really not the most exciting part of the process but its critical to get the material flat as possible. I built my first doors in my home shop with little more than a hand held router and a dado blade, so its doable. I'd start with the drawings though. Maybe even full scale on some 1/8" luan or similar.

  5. #5
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    Hi larry, I dont think you will need 10/4 to to net a two inch door esp quarter sawn with oak.You have many good sources for lumber by you.Call around for 8/4 rough and tell them you are making a door.If dont steer you to best stock ask to pick from a lift and look for straight flat one in the rough.White oak has been some of the most stable woods in my shop.Would not expect hardly any movement form good stock.Get your self a jointer you will need it.Build a flat assembly table thats important.And dont skimp on the hinges that going to be heavy.I built a dougfir door not to long ago and it was 2 inch thick 40 wide with divided lights.But i think yours will be crazy heavy.Looks like a nice door someone has good taste. Hope this helps. Andrew

  6. #6
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    You've got some good advice to start you out. I don't make exterior doors in my shop....just too many places for things to go wrong I build a fair amount of interior doors though and one thing you want to think about is hardware. I've built 1-3/4" and 2-1/4" doors but not any that are 2", you'll want to check just to make sure the latchsets you want will work with a 2" door. Also with a heavy door like that I'd generally want to use 5" ball bearing hinges which will stick out a bit more with a 2" than a 2-1/4" door. Not a big difference, just stuff that you want to at least take into consideration in the design stage.

    Another factor to consider is how you fabricate your panels. Some guys, especially in colder climates, will make the panels as sandwiches. You have a solid oak panel for each side of the door with a layer of insulating foam in between.

    Lastly, (for now), you need to figure out how your going to do the glass. I know different areas have all different building codes so I can't speak to yours. In my area though you generally cannot have a single pane of off-the-shelf glass in a door. It has to be tempered glass for safety in the door and very likely even the side panels. Of course up here they're also usually insulated glass too

    good luck,
    JeffD

  7. #7
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    Hi Andrew,

    I usually buy lumber from TH&H in San Diego. Their lumber is usually finished both sides with one straight edge. 8/4 is the thickest I've seen in their store and it's 1.75".

    At first my goal was to use 2 1/4" for the door. I've never bought wood in rough form and haven't assumed I'd get anything more than 2" from 8/4 rough. I should ask I suppose.

    Right now I'm going to have 10/4 shipped from the East coast. I've assumed this will be 2.5" rough, but since I can't pick through the stack to select the best pieces, I'm not sure what I'll be getting. Maybe I'll get 2.25" thickness out of it, maybe not. For sure I'll ask before I place an order after your comment.

    If you know a good place to buy wood in Southern California, let me know. Everyone I've called in San Diego and LA counties has pointed me to Texas or New England for qswo or Florida for the 8/4 cypress I'm also looking for.

    My wife does have great taste. :-)

    Regards,
    Larry

  8. #8
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    Hi Jeff,

    I hope I don't go too far wrong. :-) I am trying to cover the bases.

    The climate here is pretty mild most of the time I'd say. Southern California is famous for that. We're having a heat wave right now, though, and have seen 100F, 13% humidity days for about a week. It will be done by the weekend they say and we'll be back to cooling off a nights from ocean breezes. The Pacific is apparently colder than the Atlantic due to the jet stream. Anyway, a 2" wood door should be fine. It will be replacing a 1.75" wood door with worn out weather stripping.

    We have a glass place located. They can make a 3 plate sealed sandwich with leaded glass in the middle if we want. It's not at all cheap, but they seem very competent and do this for a living. I believe this is the place http://www.bluedolphinglass.com/products.asp This was the first thing my wife and I agreed on, on this project.

    Regards,
    Larry

  9. #9
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    10/4 QSWO starts to get expensive because it takes so long to kiln dry. Thick WO often has problems with checks, both surface and honey comb type which are worse, pretty much makes a board useless. If the kiln pushes it even a little bit it can ruin it. WO doesn't give up its moisture easily, nor does it take it on easily, which makes it so stable. And at that thickness it may start to turn the corner away from QS on the edges at any significant width. Think about the size of tree required to cut perfect 10/4 QSWO. Big one. Maybe Scott Smith will chime in with his experience. Mine as a user, its not always the best idea. You may be better off with a stave core or laminate construction at that thickness. I'm in New England, I see 8/4 all the time, its usually not much over 2" rough and often tapers across its width, like a wedge (due to one edge being from near the center of the tree, one from the outside which means different rates of shrinkage) so its rarely a consistent thickness anyway. Maybe if you found a mail order willing to sort a lift for the thickest stuff? Might pay a premium for that, probably not a big deal if you are prepared to cross country ship that much oak anyway.

    So my $.02. think about making or buying a white oak stave core and skinning that with 3/16" QSWO. Now you need a jointer, a BS, the list is getting longer! You can probably buy the staves, buy the skins or have them resawn by a quality yard. You don't need to spend $40K in tools to make one entry way if you are willing to have the stock prep done by others. It would be my preference to pick the stock my self for the skins.

  10. #10
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    Hi Larry,MacBeath hardwood used to be right off the 91 and 215 fwy.That was my favorite place to go.I think they are still in n.Cal. I visit peterman lumber in Fontana they also have a large inventory.Austin hardwood in Santa Ana Has been there forever.There is a place in Carlsbad called tropical and exocits of Latin America.Mitch is the owner he may know of places more closer to you.And it has been hot.This is the time of the year where I see how much of my wood shop I can more in the living room before my wife throws me outside. If I were making a door right now I would get the wood and sit on it till the end of sept.Or after the last monsoons. Andrew

  11. #11
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    I agree with Peter; I'd make the door using stave core construction. You have that big bandsaw which would be perfect for resawing the 3/16" or so thick face veneers as wide as you need. A couple of advantages of stave core construction is that you don't need to find (and finance) really thick stock; you can use 4/4 for all of it. And rather than use WO as the core, you could use LVL material and have a super stable core. Whatever core you use, you'll end up with a door that looks like solid WO that is more stable for less money. That's a winning combination in my book.


    John

  12. #12
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    Peter has it right on....I've built dozens of 1-3/4" doors with solid rift white oak and it is great for doors. Pretty stable and machines nicely....though hard on your tooling! Anything thicker then 1-3/4" I start looking a glued up stiles for paint grade or stave core for stain work.

    Sizes do vary but I can generally finish at about 1-3/4" from 8/4 stock. It takes very careful layout and stock preparation though! Some woods do come a little thicker and it varies between batches, but I'd be very surprised if you could find 8/4 white oak that could finish at 2".


    good luck,
    JeffD

  13. #13
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    Just re-read the OP's second post, 20" Agazzani, no brainer. Stave core. Just need the jointer or an associate with one.

  14. #14
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    One more place that comes to mind is Goby Walnut in Oregon.I think you can 10/4 or even larger if you call around.But like peter said its going to be pricey.Dont know any places for Cypress except my backyard.I have a nice pile of leyland cypress drying wont be ready for at least two more years.IF your interested in cedar easy creek in oregon has some of the best alaskan yellow cedar and red.Not a tru cedar more related to the cypress species.Good luck with your door show some pics when your done.

  15. #15
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    Hi Larry,

    I am building a front door now. I am using riff sawn red oak. My door will be 2 1/4" thick by 36" wide. I am laminating the stiles and rails. My door will resemble your photo, but without the side lite. I made an I beam to laminate my stiles and rails. The I beam allows you to laminate flat, and offers excellent clamping. The lamination makes them very stable. I started off with 4/4 rough. I have three laminations to give me the 2 1/4".

    Shop I Beam 012.jpg


    This will be my second door. The first was an interior, 1 3/4", with laminated stiles and rails. Again, I used 4/4 rough stock.

    When I purchased my hardware, lock set, etc, it seems to me they specified 1 3/4", or 2 1/4". I don't know if either will fit a 2" door.

    Sam

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