Any air conditioning experts out there? What is the best central air conditioner?

[Bill Cunningham]

We installed a big Carrier 2 stage heatpump w/3 stage gas furnace a few years ago for heating.. It also provides Air condx (19.5 sear).. Our house is only 1 level 1200 sq ft. ,so it just idles along keeping this place nice and cool.. We have had several days over 100deg f. so far this year, and my hydro bill might be up 5-10 bucks a month. over a normal summer..

[Phil Thien]

Here is information on the R-22 phase-out:

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phas...2phaseout.html

Looks like 2020 is the end of production of R-22.

The last air conditioner I replaced was about 30 years old (roof-top unit). I know reclaimed R-22 will be available after 2020, I'd be a little concerned that I'd have a problem that would require a charge in 15 years and end up having to pay through the nose for the stuff.

[Brian Elfert]

We have a Climate Master geothermal unit and it has been excellent. It is also sold under the Bryant and Carrier names. If you purchase the right unit, there is a 30% tax credit that goes until the end of the year I believe.

Geothermal is a whole different ballgame. It will be much more expensive than just replacing a central A/C unit, but it also saves a lot of money typically.

The 30% federal tax credit on geothermal actually doesn't expire until 2016. If I planned to be in my house long term I would certainly look into installing geothermal as my heating/cooling will be 15 years old in 2016.

[Brian Elfert]

I have an American Standard furnace and air conditioner. They will be 10 years old in a few months. No repairs on either unit yet, but the company who did the install did a very nice job. My only regret is not paying the little bit extra for a 2 stage furnace.

Refrigerant should not need to be added to a central air conditioner on a routine basis. The reason cars often need more refrigerant is because they use flexible hoses instead of soldered/brazed copper.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

With cars, I usually see the refrigerant leaking thru either the compressor or the filling ports. Car compressors use a mechanical shaft driven by a belt that relies on seals and gaskets to hold back refrigerant. Not so with home compressors. They use hermetically sealed electric motors. Flexible hoses and their threaded joints probably add to the car's leak issue too.

On home units, I usually see some leakage thru the filling ports unless a definitive hole is found in the coil. But, I have found that it is not uncommon to periodically add some refrigerant to an older home system. The stuff just seems to find a way out.

Jeff

[David Keller NC]

The key item to make your decision on whether to buy the R-22 units that are being sold at considerable discount in inventory clearance sales or go with a newer R-410a unit is this (from the EPA website):

"As noted above, chemical manufacturers will no longer be able to produce, and companies will no longer be able to import, R-22 for use in new A/C equipment after 2010, but they can continue production and import of R-22 until 2020 for use in servicing existing equipment. Given this schedule, which was established in 1993, the transition away from R-22 to the use of ozone-friendly refrigerants should be smooth. For the next 10 years or more, R-22 should continue to be available for all systems that require R-22 for servicing."

While true that R-22 will be available for probably the next decade or so, it's highly likely that the price will go up substantially because while it can still be produced and recovered for recycling, the fact that it will not be produced in large quantities because it cannot be included in new refrigeration units means that the economies of scale will no longer be there.

If you are installing a new system, you will likely be far better off purchasing an R-410a system from the standpoint of recovery/filling with refrigerant. However, as has been pointed out earlier, residential A/C systems (unlike auto A/C systems) are totally sealed - they do not have gaskets/fittings that will wear out and leak refrigerant. One significant unknown with these new systems, however, is how long their service life will be with the new R-410a. Saturated chloroflurocarbons (like R-12 & R-22) are almost totally inert. In fact, that's the basic environmental problem - they don't break down very well in the environment, and make their way to the stratosphere where UV radiation has sufficient energy to split the fluorine-carbon bonds. Unfortunately, the reactants produced from that process rapidly oxidize in the presence of ozone (O3), which depletes that molecule.

The newer refrigerants are more labile - they will break down readily in the lower atmosphere. This is largely because they are "unsaturated" in the sense that they have hydrogen attached to some or all of the carbon atoms in addition to the chlorine & fluorine atoms. These carbon-hydrogen bonds allow the molecule to be broken down fairly readily, but they also mean that the molecule is somewhat corrosive, and most of the newer refrigerants are also flammable.

Another aspect that adds complication to the refrigerant substitution protocol that was set up by international agreement was that all of these chemicals or mixture of chemicals have different pressure/boiling point profiles from their saturated chlorofluorocarbon bretheren. In the case of 410a, the operating pressure is subtantially higher. Whether this will result in reduced service life is uncertain, but it does mean that the components of the evaporator/condensor/compressor/expansion valve circuit are heavier and use more materials.

To the OP - Since you live in New Jersey which has fairly high electric rates, you may wish to consider a totally natural gas-fired heating/cooling system. Essentially, a natural gas generator provides the mechanical force necessary to compress the refrigerant and run what amounts to a heat pump. Natural gas prices took a severe tumble in the mid 2000's as hydaulic fracturing and directional drilling technologies matured and formerly inaccessible geologic formations that contain unbelievably huge natural gas reserves came into production. While the outcome of the debate on the environmental consequences of hydraulic fracturing is uncertain, it is highly unlikely that natural gas prices will recover to the relatively expensive selling price of the early 2000's. As coal-fired power plants are phased out, it's probable that electric rates will continue to rise, so a natural-gas fired appliance for a power-hungry application like home A/C may be a more practical alternative.

[Brian Elfert]

I'm still worried that natural gas prices will skyrocket as one coal power plant after another is converted to natural gas. The local power utility has converted several coal plants to natural gas under pressure from environmentalists. One power plant probably uses more natural gas in a day than my house would in a few centuries.

[Mike Henderson]

But, I have found that it is not uncommon to periodically add some refrigerant to an older home system. The stuff just seems to find a way out.

Jeff

That's been my experience, also. No matter what you do, it's not uncommon to find the system a bit low on refrigerant about every two seasons.

Very good discussion of the new refrigerants, David (Keller). Regarding R22, if it follows the same path as R12, the price will go up quite a bit, but eventually will decrease as the older units (which use R22) are taken out of service. But that will be a lot of years, probably 20 or more.

Here in California (relatively close to the coast), I have a real problem when thinking of upgrading my AC. We only use it about two or three months out of the year, and not every day or all day, at that. So even if I decrease my electricity use by half, it will take a long time to pay for the increased cost of a very high SEER unit.

Mike

[Joe Leigh]

A few words on new units/new refrigerants, and replacements; R-22 is sill abundantly available and will be for years to come. Manufacturers are now offering new R-22 condensing units once again. The difference is these units are now sold "dry", that is, charged with nitrogen at the factory. This a is a good work around compared to a new 410A unit which would require replacement or major modification of the evaporator section due to metering device and oil incompatibility. R410A units are problematic due to the extreme pressures they operate under requiring special gauges and tools to install/charge. This refrigerant is being replaced by R407C which operates at nearly identical pressure as R22 and requires no specialized equipment to work with.

[Mike Null]

I realize this thread is old but I'm doing some homework as it looks like it might be wise for me to invest in a new central unit. My existing unit is a Rheem about 20 years old. Three or four years ago I had to add refrigerant; last year I replaced a motor which was nearly $500 and now it needs a lot of refrigerant again. The repairman says several pounds which could cost cost $500 to $600. I anticipated this and was prepared to start shopping to replace the entire system.

Since the Rheem has performed quite well and reliably I have no qualms about buying another. My house is about 2500 square feet plus a basement which I heat and cool.

I would appreciate any new input as I expect to begin shopping immediately.

[Jerry Thompson]

We put a Traine in 25 years ago and only minor inexpesive problems. It should also be noted we live in Florida.

[David Weaver]

I'm still worried that natural gas prices will skyrocket as one coal power plant after another is converted to natural gas. The local power utility has converted several coal plants to natural gas under pressure from environmentalists. One power plant probably uses more natural gas in a day than my house would in a few centuries.

Right now there is more natural gas than drillers know what to do with, though. I wouldn't worry about it yet. There is a LOT of natural gas activity around here and they have suspended drilling new wells in a lot of cases because there is nowhere for it to go right now. Unless hydraulic fracking is outlawed, there is gobs just laying out there waiting for the market price to make it sensible to get it.

[David Weaver]

I realize this thread is old but I'm doing some homework as it looks like it might be wise for me to invest in a new central unit. My existing unit is a Rheem about 20 years old. Three or four years ago I had to add refrigerant; last year I replaced a motor which was nearly $500 and now it needs a lot of refrigerant again. The repairman says several pounds which could cost cost $500 to $600. I anticipated this and was prepared to start shopping to replace the entire system.

Since the Rheem has performed quite well and reliably I have no qualms about buying another. My house is about 2500 square feet plus a basement which I heat and cool.

I would appreciate any new input as I expect to begin shopping immediately.

How much is several? I have to have coolant (R22) added to my A/C about every 5 years. Usually about 2 pounds. This time around, 2 pounds of R-22 cost me $80 plus the plumber's flat one-hour service fee. The last time I got it 5 years ago, I clipped a coupon from the paper for one of those $95 check your furnace and air conditioning deals, and the plumber who came that time put two pounds in and didn't charge me anything above the $95 deal price.

I have an old furnace from 1983, and the A/C isn't probably any newer, so it's by no means efficient. The total incremetal cost for electricity over the summer for me (over the winter use) is about $250, or perhaps a little less. It just doesn't make a lot of sense for me to spend the money right now to get something more efficient when the add-coolant cost can be averaged out to about $35 a year.

In both cases, the coolant was added by large long-established residental HVAC companies that are well known here.

[Matt Meiser]

We are still happy with the Trane heat pump, but ours did have a bad brazed joint from the factory which required re-brazing by our contractor. Of course that didn't show up until it was HOT out last summer and it just wouldn't keep up. The first time they thought it was because it was charged in the cool fall weather which can result in a low charge. The second time they got us through the weekend with a recharge then came Monday morning to fix it right. It can happen and it was handled without hassle (including quick evening service calls to get us cool) which I think is the true test.

I think you are better finding a GOOD contractor and going with whichever good brand of equipment they carry than finding a good brand of equipment and going with whichever contractor carries it. Good contractors aren't always the ones with the prettiest paint jobs on their trucks.

[Mike Null]

I've been using the same contractor for about 15 years. He explained that the price of this refrigerant has skyrocketed and that in the near future it will be banned. The first pound was $95 then $80 per pound after that. He didn't know how much but said 4 to 6 pounds.

At 20 years old there can't be much more life in this system so I am inclined to replace it.