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Thread: Advice on potential table saw buy -- Delta Model 10

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Vermont
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    2,296
    i agree...sell some blood if you have to

  2. #62
    Well, good to know on the unisaw -- I'm guessing the white is what gives away it's youth (vs. the gray/blue on older models)? Flint is not anywhere near me. Just wanted to see what was out there if I searched a bit further. It was the post about that $152 unisaw that made me think about it. He said he spend $140 on gas and I realized that he must have traveled quite a bit to get the saw... so no sense in looking just in St. Paul MN. I've often found the best CL deals on other stuff in the outer suburbs where you have to drive 30-60min, but they've usually been worth it for me. Road bicycle, Bosch jigsaw, HD77 circular saw...

    Perhaps I need to apply the same principle to the saw. Next time I may just narrow it down to within 250 miles rather than 500. Driving to Michigan is not so appealing. But I'd do a day trip with a buddy.

    There were several Grizzly cabinet saws out there as well. There's this one in Iowa city: http://iowacity.craigslist.org/tls/2506631918.html

    They don't list the model, but I'm guessing 3hp is definitely a cabinet saw. $550 for it, and I bet one could haggle. Anyway, if my Craigslist-fu is getting better, perhaps I'll figure out what to do financially (as in, convince the wife), and then just wait. I may post back in some new posts as I get ready to decide and start really watching. I've gotten the habit down pretty well, searching delta saw, table saw, rockwell saw, cabinet saw, unisaw, ridgid saw, grizzly saw. That generally gets me the relevant hits and if I do that every day, the ones I've already found from the previous days are purple so I can quickly see if there's anything new.

    Thanks for the feedback!

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Camas, Wa
    Posts
    3,853
    John,
    That Grizzly cabinet saw might be a good deal if it has not been abused. My guess is it is an older 1023. It looks white in the picture. All the 1023's that I know of were Green. Whit never showed up in the picture till the G0690 about 3 years ago. If it is a 690 with a Beisemeyer than it is a steal. Another thing to consider is right vs left tilt. It matters to some. Older Unisaws will ber right. PM66s will be left. Older 1023s will be right. I think Grizzly made the switch to left about 5-6 years ago. The $600 Unisaw in a previous post would be a good deal. Nothing magical about a Unisaw though. I rehabbed a 1970 version about 5 years ago. I have a G1023RL now. Be careful with the mythical $200 Uni. Sometimes they aren't such a bargain.

    Cary

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Doylestown, PA
    Posts
    7,551
    The one in Detroit (Oxford) is 3 phase. Something to watch out for. The one in Grand Rapids would appeal to a collector. It looks like it has the R-I "bullet" motor, just needs the authentic goose egg cover and the rest of the fence. Grizzly machines from the '90s were for the most part not as good as Grizzly tools of today. The G1023 is an exception IMO; I have one from 1997 or 98 and it doesn't have any issues. A bandsaw purchased around the same time was another story altogether.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Posts
    112
    It looks like you get at least some cabinet saws popping up "nearby" (I'm originally from the East, and to me, nearby means 15-20 miles - folks out west have a more expansive definition ). When I went from the contractor saw to the 22124, I had to make some criteria to aid in decision making, and here's what I came up with:

    - does it need 220? In your case, I think that's not an issue
    - is the top relatively rust-free?
    - do the motor and switch look OK? (motors can run $3-500)
    - is the fence OK? Is it a bessemeyer or unifence? or an old version that will need to be replced (Fences run $2-500, depending on style and rails)
    - Does it have a mobile base (can run $80-150, depending, though you can build a simple one a lot cheaper)
    - does it have a decent guard? A riving knife? (Replacement parts can be pricey, and a cheap aftrmarket overarm giuard and splitter will run around $350)

    I found an older unisaw in good shape with a 110v motor for $550, but it had no mobile base, no guard, and an old fence that would not make me happy. Now, I had a bessemeyer clone I had gotten for my contractor saw, and I might have been able to re-use my mobile base, but I'd still need some sort of guard. So that $550 was more like $900. I ultimately found a 22124 (a hybrid 110v cabinet saw) for $450, re-used my mobile base, and sold my bessemyer clone fence for $150, making the effective cost to me of $300 (I also sold the contractor saw, but that would have happened wither way, so I'm not factoring in that in my cost comparison). The 22124 also has a nice (if pre-riving knife) quick-release splitter/guard. The unisaw would have been heavier-duty, perhaps, but not worth the additional $600 to me.

    If you can find an $800-1000 modern 3hp 220v unisaw on a mobile base with a guard, then I'd say that is a much better bargain than a $500 unisaw that will need further investment.

  6. #66
    Well... sometimes we're all subject to a boss of some sorts. Talked things over with the wife and she thinks I should only spend ~$200 right now and then revisit a more expensive saw in a year. I made the case that I could spend about twice that now and not have to ever go through this again (or at least not for many, many years). I was a bit bummed. I've been making cribbage boards for friends, and might be able to make some, sell them, and then use that + the $200 she was okay with and buy a better saw. But honestly, I just made some mitered framing for one last night that did not turn out very well. I'm actually a bit embarrassed about it even though it's a giveaway board for a friend who recently found out he has cancer. I said I'd make him one to pass his time during chemo/recovery.

    I'm so sick of this saw (checked 90, was about as perfect as I could get and it still cut the miter different at the top/bottom. As in if you went to fit a frame together, the top might fit snug, but the bottom of the frame wouldn't meet because the miters aren't perpendicular). So... I don't really even want to make something for anyone until I have a tool that will measure up to the perfectionism I put into my projects. Even if someone gets something free... it has my initials on it.

    Anyway, I'm re-compiling a new list to look at and think I can perhaps stretch that $200 a bit, but definitely not up to something like $5-600 where I could score a Grizzly 1023 or older Delta uni.

    Are any of these looking appealing? (Assume I have to talk them all down to ~$250)

    - Delta 34-474, $375: http://duluth.craigslist.org/tls/2521550992.html
    - Delta 36-650, $250: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/cs...504896929.html
    - Delta (model unknown), $400: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ra...528931713.html
    - Delta (model unknown), $450: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/da...509516159.html
    - Delta 36-679, $500: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/an...489724685.html (looks in great shape and better fence)
    - Delta 34-444, $275: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ws...546718177.html
    - Delta 34-410, $200: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/da...524602820.html
    - Grizzly 1022, $400: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...532846328.html
    - Ridgid 3650 (not sure, though), $350: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/an...543583556.html
    - Ridgid (maybe a 2412 or 2424?), $500: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/an...534213090.html (way overpriced)
    - Ridgid 2424, $250: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/tls/2522685328.html
    - Ridgid 3650, $400: http://lacrosse.craigslist.org/for/2525953364.html
    - Ridgid 3660 (did they mean 3650?), $400: http://desmoines.craigslist.org/tls/2500003705.html (looks nearly unused!)
    - Ridgid 3650, $450: http://appleton.craigslist.org/tls/2547902328.html

    So, again, I'd have to finagle these down to $2-250, but there do seem to be some options for sure. That delta 36-679 is pricey, but if people thought it would last me a long time, that might be worth haggling down to $300-350 and asking the wife for an increase I emailed and the guy responded right away. It's about an hour outside of St. Paul, so that's nice as a lot of time the suburb sales get neglected because people don't want to drive. It's been listed for a month, so hopefully he'd be flexible about it?

    I'm also waiting back on that Ridgid in St. Francis, which might be the 3650 that someone recommended. Maybe I could get it for $250. I can always play the "Well, my wife said I could only spend $xxx" card.

    I'm still open to that Grizzly as well, if others think it's decent.

    Sorry for the waffling. I love woodworking, but a happy wife makes for far more enjoyable "Hey hon, look what I made" experiences, rather than everything I produce being a source of bitterness and a reminder that I didn't respect her wishes. Believe me, I've been scheming for stuff to sell (guitar, gun...) to make my next purchase my last. Any last thoughts? This has been quite the posting marathon -- I think if nothing really changes, I'll be going for as nice a contractor as I can get for $2-300. Even if I could "come up with" more money, I just think my wife would suggest that it could be put to use for the family or something like that. I don't see her budging too much on this. My friend has a Ridgid 3650 and he's really happy with it and thinks he'll stick with it for life. He's a pretty darn good woodworker and does a lot bigger stuff than me (built a picnic table and wardrobe), so that made a big impression. He also uses it inside, so the dust collection can't be that horrid

    Thanks again, all.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Posts
    112
    The Delta is nice (two cast iron wings), but the t2 while adquate, is not a great fence. Well, it's a good fence - better than the old jet-lock fences -- , but its not a bessemeyer or unifence. At $3-350, though, it'd be a good deal, if it has the blade guard and some sort of mobile base.

    The Rigids 3650 have an excellent reputation - $400 seems high to me (at various points in time, before further discounts, they were $400-500 new). They have bulit in mobile base, so as log as they have the blade guards, you're set. $250-300 would seem reasonable if in excellent shape.

    The $375 Delta has a mobile base, a Unifence (which some folks really like) and looks like it has one cst iron wing and long rails. Probably doesn't have the blade guard (if its 13 years old), but worth asking about. I'd think $3-350 would be an devent deal here, too, if its in good shape. Hard to tell if the surface is discolored from rust or just the way the picture was taken.

  8. #68
    How about this one? General 50-250M1 for $800: http://rmn.craigslist.org/tls/2494670980.html

    This is a General International Cabinet Saw, Model 50-250M1, 3HP, left tilt with a 50" General "T" Fence System. With the current extension table, you can rip about 52" to the right of the blade. The saw has very few actual hours on it and is in fine shape! It comes with all the factory delivered accessories miter guage, blade guard with splitter and anti-kickback fingers, and a dado head insert. It is powered by a industrial grade 3HP TEFC motor using a three belt setup. The General "T" Fence System is made in Canada -- very accurate, solid, and easy to adjust. The cast iron top (including the 2 cast wings) measures 40 ½" W X 27" D. It has a 4" dust chute.
    I am the original owner -- it was purchased in 2002 (built in July 2001 according to the mfg plate). I have had absolutely no problems with this saw but need to maximize the space in my small shop and this one is just too big.
    A current General cabinet saw in this configuration goes for well over $2000 plus shipping. Do yourself a favor and get this one for less than half that price!
    Following are the specs:
    Model: 50-250M1
    HP: 3
    Volts: 230 Single Phase
    Amps: 12.7
    Arbor Speed: 4000 RPM
    Depth of cut @ 90 deg: 3"
    Depth of cut @ 45 deg: 2 ¼"
    Weight: 370#
    I realize it's high priced based on what I just said... I'm seriously considering selling a handgun and .22 conversion kit for it that I bought when I was thinking about getting a carry license which is no longer appealing to me and I don't take the handgun to the range anymore. I've probably got 5-600 I could get for it, so that could make a cabinet saw affordable. This one looks awesome and I think I've heard others talk about General before?

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,717
    This is the General "International" right tilt cabinet saw made in Taiwan, not the Canadian made General 350 (same company, different line). Still a nice saw, roughly the caliber of Jet or Grizzly. $800 might be a fair price, $700 would be better! Is that $600 Uni gone?
    Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

  10. #70
    Scott -- thanks for the tips. I did not know the difference between the names. The $600 unisaw post has been deleted. It was also in Flint Michigan which is like 10 hours from me! I'm waiting to hear back from a whole host of people. I at least hope to get out and look around. This Craftsman cabinet saw turned up: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/tls/2535261405.html

    Don't know the model or anything about it, but it looks pretty nice. I think there's a lot of options above. I'll see what comes up and perhaps offer quite aggressively on the best ones and just see what happens. I still don't think I'll be sealing any deals right now. I just started looking and there's already a ton to choose from. I plan to clean up my own crap saw and try to sell it before moving on another anyway. I may just lurk for a good couple weeks to a month and see what I observe. I really do appreciate everyone coming back and re-posting based on new findings and questions.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    2,296
    you need to bring "the safety card" into play...the fence you have is not safe...the first time you get a kick back and have to visit the hospital you are looking at a bigger bill than $600.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Morton View Post
    you need to bring "the safety card" into play...the fence you have is not safe...the first time you get a kick back and have to visit the hospital you are looking at a bigger bill than $600.
    That's a great point, actually. Even more so since that recent post illustrating pictures. I've never had a kickback, but am very aware of them and make a point never, ever to stand in-line of the wood I'm cutting. But the old saw I have doesn't have a guard, a splitter/riving knife, or fence that will always toe out except for how well I do at trying to make sure the back is 1/64th bigger than I want to cut (which is what I do).

    I'll definitely take that into consideration.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by John W Henderson View Post
    Scott -- thanks for the tips. I did not know the difference between the names. The $600 unisaw post has been deleted. It was also in Flint Michigan which is like 10 hours from me! I'm waiting to hear back from a whole host of people. I at least hope to get out and look around. This Craftsman cabinet saw turned up: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/tls/2535261405.html

    Don't know the model or anything about it, but it looks pretty nice. I think there's a lot of options above. I'll see what comes up and perhaps offer quite aggressively on the best ones and just see what happens. I still don't think I'll be sealing any deals right now. I just started looking and there's already a ton to choose from. I plan to clean up my own crap saw and try to sell it before moving on another anyway. I may just lurk for a good couple weeks to a month and see what I observe. I really do appreciate everyone coming back and re-posting based on new findings and questions.
    That Craftsman is known as the zip code saw 22124 I believe. Do a search for zip code saw and you will find its reputation as a winner. It has a real Besmieyer fence and cabinet mounted trunnions.

  14. #74
    Just a heads up, my uncle just bought a 1022 saw on CL in the st. louis area that looked exactly like the one in the link below. The guy was asking $300 and he paid it, I assume he would have come down as the saw had been posted several times.

    You are showing a lot more patience than i have ever been able to maintain. Best of luck in your search.

    Quote Originally Posted by John W Henderson View Post
    Well... sometimes we're all subject to a boss of some sorts. Talked things over with the wife and she thinks I should only spend ~$200 right now and then revisit a more expensive saw in a year. I made the case that I could spend about twice that now and not have to ever go through this again (or at least not for many, many years). I was a bit bummed. I've been making cribbage boards for friends, and might be able to make some, sell them, and then use that + the $200 she was okay with and buy a better saw. But honestly, I just made some mitered framing for one last night that did not turn out very well. I'm actually a bit embarrassed about it even though it's a giveaway board for a friend who recently found out he has cancer. I said I'd make him one to pass his time during chemo/recovery.

    I'm so sick of this saw (checked 90, was about as perfect as I could get and it still cut the miter different at the top/bottom. As in if you went to fit a frame together, the top might fit snug, but the bottom of the frame wouldn't meet because the miters aren't perpendicular). So... I don't really even want to make something for anyone until I have a tool that will measure up to the perfectionism I put into my projects. Even if someone gets something free... it has my initials on it.

    Anyway, I'm re-compiling a new list to look at and think I can perhaps stretch that $200 a bit, but definitely not up to something like $5-600 where I could score a Grizzly 1023 or older Delta uni.

    Are any of these looking appealing? (Assume I have to talk them all down to ~$250)

    - Delta 34-474, $375: http://duluth.craigslist.org/tls/2521550992.html
    - Delta 36-650, $250: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/cs...504896929.html
    - Delta (model unknown), $400: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ra...528931713.html
    - Delta (model unknown), $450: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/da...509516159.html
    - Delta 36-679, $500: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/an...489724685.html (looks in great shape and better fence)
    - Delta 34-444, $275: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ws...546718177.html
    - Delta 34-410, $200: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/da...524602820.html
    - Grizzly 1022, $400: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...532846328.html
    - Ridgid 3650 (not sure, though), $350: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/an...543583556.html
    - Ridgid (maybe a 2412 or 2424?), $500: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/an...534213090.html (way overpriced)
    - Ridgid 2424, $250: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/tls/2522685328.html
    - Ridgid 3650, $400: http://lacrosse.craigslist.org/for/2525953364.html
    - Ridgid 3660 (did they mean 3650?), $400: http://desmoines.craigslist.org/tls/2500003705.html (looks nearly unused!)
    - Ridgid 3650, $450: http://appleton.craigslist.org/tls/2547902328.html

    So, again, I'd have to finagle these down to $2-250, but there do seem to be some options for sure. That delta 36-679 is pricey, but if people thought it would last me a long time, that might be worth haggling down to $300-350 and asking the wife for an increase I emailed and the guy responded right away. It's about an hour outside of St. Paul, so that's nice as a lot of time the suburb sales get neglected because people don't want to drive. It's been listed for a month, so hopefully he'd be flexible about it?

    I'm also waiting back on that Ridgid in St. Francis, which might be the 3650 that someone recommended. Maybe I could get it for $250. I can always play the "Well, my wife said I could only spend $xxx" card.

    I'm still open to that Grizzly as well, if others think it's decent.

    Sorry for the waffling. I love woodworking, but a happy wife makes for far more enjoyable "Hey hon, look what I made" experiences, rather than everything I produce being a source of bitterness and a reminder that I didn't respect her wishes. Believe me, I've been scheming for stuff to sell (guitar, gun...) to make my next purchase my last. Any last thoughts? This has been quite the posting marathon -- I think if nothing really changes, I'll be going for as nice a contractor as I can get for $2-300. Even if I could "come up with" more money, I just think my wife would suggest that it could be put to use for the family or something like that. I don't see her budging too much on this. My friend has a Ridgid 3650 and he's really happy with it and thinks he'll stick with it for life. He's a pretty darn good woodworker and does a lot bigger stuff than me (built a picnic table and wardrobe), so that made a big impression. He also uses it inside, so the dust collection can't be that horrid

    Thanks again, all.
    Last edited by Jeffrey Cowan; 08-17-2011 at 11:23 PM. Reason: reworded for more sense making :)

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Barry View Post
    Get a cheap, but decent contract saw for as low as you can, get a really good blade, and, only if necessary, get a new fence.
    I'll add to that: Get the link belt and machined pulley upgrade, and the PALS alignment upgrade is also a big boost for not much money. My 25 year old Delta model 10 contractor, when combined with a 25 year old Vega fence (52" deck!), link belt, machined pulleys, new bearings, and PALS, was not only able to balance a penny through a full power cycle, it was dead accurate once aligned. It was a great saw - I bought it for $450, used it heavily, then sold it for $450 with about $60 in upgrades. I think $60 for my use was more than fair, and it'll see another 25 years of use. The saw well exceeded my abilities.
    Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage.

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