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Thread: Wirth machine (not exactly a gloat because Im not quite sure what all it does....)

  1. #1
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    Wirth machine (not exactly a gloat because Im not quite sure what all it does....)

    Well, I was sipping coffee this morning and perusing the 'tools' section of craigslist. Ran across an ad for a 'Wirth machine'. A quick google gives me a sense of it, and that indeed it can be used to cut mortises easily enough. $550. Ok, a little more than a dedicated mortiser but no doubt there is more than just mortises I could do with it - so off to check it out and looks and runs good (a nice 1.5hp baldor motor), with several of the tendon templates, so I cart it home.

    So those of you that are familiar with it, tell me your favorite operations you use it for. (for sure I will use it for mortises, 'maybe' tendons, dovetails I mostly just cut by hand these days... what else??)

    IMG_0355.jpgIMG_0352.jpgIMG_0353.jpgIMG_0354.jpg

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beckett View Post
    Well, I was sipping coffee this morning and perusing the 'tools' section of craigslist. Ran across an ad for a 'Wirth machine'. A quick google gives me a sense of it, and that indeed it can be used to cut mortises easily enough. $550. Ok, a little more than a dedicated mortiser but no doubt there is more than just mortises I could do with it - so off to check it out and looks and runs good (a nice 1.5hp baldor motor), with several of the tendon templates, so I cart it home.

    So those of you that are familiar with it, tell me your favorite operations you use it for. (for sure I will use it for mortises, 'maybe' tendons, dovetails I mostly just cut by hand these days... what else??)

    IMG_0355.jpgIMG_0352.jpgIMG_0353.jpgIMG_0354.jpg




    I would like to pause for a moment and STRESS the importance of not cutting any "Tendons" with this new toy.
    Husband to 1, father to 9
    2 girls and 7 boys (in that order)
    Life Is Full Of Blessings
    The Lord is my Rock and my Refuge.

  3. #3
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    I can't answer your question but it certainty looks like a well made machine.
    Please help support the Creek.


    "It's paradoxical that the idea of living a long life appeals to everyone, but the idea of getting old doesn't appeal to anyone."
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  4. #4
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    Okay, with that out of the way


    I've never used one of these but it looks like fun.

    I'm interested to see it in motion.
    Husband to 1, father to 9
    2 girls and 7 boys (in that order)
    Life Is Full Of Blessings
    The Lord is my Rock and my Refuge.

  5. #5
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    Ha! Indeed.

    (although I am not one to criticize other peoples spelling.... or typing for that matter, which are two different things)

    In its basic form, its a horizontal router/slot mortiser. It seems very very similar to the 'JDS Multi-router'.

    One thing I do like is that you clamp the workpiece down and move the entire table - fingers/hands out of the way.

    Very well made. It will get used - but I dont find a lot about it so was hoping there were some direct user experience here. I will snap a couple pictures - it functions by tracing a shape (the template) that is clamped to the backside of a carriage that the workpiece is held on. The cutting bit then goes through the same motions as the tracer pin. So if you trace around an outside shape, and the bit then directly follows this same motion path and viola, you have cut the shape you are tracing.

    Or just clamp a piece down and hog out mortises - which you size by setting stops. (all three axis)

    Seems like it will shine when setting up to make a bunch of repeat joinery.

  6. #6
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    I think it is one of the early versions of the “Matchmaker” distributed by WoodTec.




    If you call Wood Workers Supply (1-800-645-9292) the New Mexico branch they can tell you all you need to know and can get parts and such as well. I had one of the Matchmakers and they helped me out a lot with parts and history of the machine. It was a good unit but I pick up a Multi-Router and sold the Matchmaker instead.

    Last edited by richard poitras; 08-14-2011 at 7:20 PM.
    Richard Poitras
    Central, Michigan....
    01-02-2006


  7. #7
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    This machine is designed and sold by Woodworkers Supply, the newer model is called the Matchmaker. Their website has the Wirth Machine on sale for $1840, I think you got a good deal.

    Regards!
    Ed

  8. #8
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    I like the induction motor instead of a router motor. Listening to a long run of parts being machined with a router motor has always kept me away from the matchmaker sort of tools.

    Be interested to hear what you think of it after some actual use, I may have to find one of them if it proves to be the cats pajama's.

    Larry

  9. #9
    After looking for a Wirth Machine for about three years, I finally gave up the ghost and purchased one of the last new ones from Woodworker's Supply. I'd like to keep in touch with you as you start to use your machine, and trade some ideas about techniques!

    Gary

  10. #10
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    Gary - definitely happy to share experiences so let me know how it goes on your end.

    Here are my very initial impressions, after only doing some test cuts (sorry no pics - I plan to snap some when doing an actual project):

    This may be the best way yet (for me at least), for making mortises. just set the stops, clamp the piece, and work the table for a precision mortise. Stops can be set to locate the piece to the same spot each time. Pretty simple and easy and quick. In fact, I am inspired enough that as soon as I finish my current project, I am going to take on the Morris chair as a learning exercise (more mortises more betta!). Here is where I believe the machine will shine.

    I notice on the JDS multirouter, they use a guide system that locates the follower pin on two sides. On this Wirth machine, you trace around a template riding against one side. A little more 'knack' involved. The verdict is still out for me, on just how square and pure the shoulder will be when doing an end tenon (more to come on this). Having said that, the double mortises setup and machine in a single step - very easy.

    Also worth noting that you can adjust for an undersized router bit, by wrapping a piece of masking tape around the pin follower (or the template - your choice). This essentially makes the tenon fatter - ie. a quick way to dial in the perfect fit.

    Once you have the locating stops set, its very quick and easy to load and repeat for the next cut.

    One idea I have, that is closer to the Multirouter in function, is to cut templates using the incra jig patterns. For example, you could make a precise dentil type template on the incra jig, and then clamp that in the Wirth and be able to repeat this cut indefinitely. This could be the cats meow for finger joints, or Im thinking with just a little creativity would allow repeatability of almost anything the Incra patterns allow. This is true for the dovetail functionality - My first thoughts are you can make a custom set of templates on the incra fence that would transfer directly to the Wirth.

    Taking that one step further, Im thinking some custom templates would be pretty common. Just cut a matched set with a pattern cutting layout. Clamp the first one and chase the mortise, then clamp the second one to chase the tenon. These could be ANY shape/size, and would repeat exactly. Some funky possibilities... (through tenons in the shape of an arc?). A shortcut might be to scroll a patter with a thin kerf, and then adjust with a little masking tape on the tenon side (couldnt get any easier than that, and could then chase any shape you wanted to scroll). Of course this is all 'hypothetical' and I have actually DONE it....... so may change my tune once I try it.

    As for build construction - the large motor is great and I like it much better than a router motor. The collet works similar to an end mill machine, again a big plus in my book. I do have one direction of travel on the table that has a small amount of play if I lift up - my gut says this is adjustable but I havent chased it down yet (the tables ride in V-bearing rails, so can be very tight/accurate)

    Net net - so far I like it. BUT - havent had the time to give it a serious workout...... yet.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beckett View Post
    The verdict is still out for me, on just how square and pure the shoulder will be when doing an end tenon (more to come on this). Having said that, the double mortises setup and machine in a single step - very easy.
    I use a Leigh FMT for my mortise and tennons, their instruction book recommends using a spiral upcut bit. When you begin the tennon rout clock-wise making a making a shallow, full depth (does that make sense? Cut the full depth of the tennon but just score the side about an eigth of an inch or so.) cut then following the template counter clock-wise. This last weekend I cut about 50 seperate joints of multiple sizes in pine and walnut and all of them had perfectly clean shoulders.

  12. #12
    Hi Carl,

    Glad to hear you've gotten started with the Wirth Machine and it's doing what you want it to do.

    I actually also have a couple of the Matchmaker machines as well, I haven't taken delivery of the Wirth yet, but will keep you posted.

    I have successfully made many mortise and tenon joints with smaller jobs like cabinet face frames with the Leigh FMT, but we live in an old Victorian house where many of the doors were damaged in its days as a rooming house, so I'm talking about 1 3/4" floating panel doors that I've had to make, I'm actually going to do this next one *(83 1/2" X 36") by routing the mortises with a Matchmaker.

    With stiles this thick, I have an Inca 659 shaper set up with a special cutter set made by LRH of Los Angeles, that can cut deep 3/8" thick tenons *(2 1/2" depth), and as mentioned I'll cut the matching door rails with a 3/8" solid carbide cutter with a Matchmaker.

    Thanks for sharing your first "Wirth" experiences!

    Gary

  13. #13
    Hi Carl,

    I finally got my Wirth Machine on a proper base and am trying it out on a kitchen cabinet face frame project, using custom milled 1" mahogany 2" wide stock.

    I'm finding at least so far, the opposite of your experience with respect to where the machine shines. I think it makes amazingly accurate tenons, in this project they are 3/8" thick by 1 1/2" wide and 1 1/4" deep. I made all of them for a complicated face frame that will hold six glass doors.

    My finding was that when I went into the mortising operation, and I do agree it is fast and clean, that the clamp is in the wrong position, it is so far forward that it is catching the stile pieces, some of them 48" long, along the front edge, introducing a lift to them on the cutter side, definitely not good.

    Having discovered this issued before I actually begin work on the real pieces, I may go back to the Leigh FMT for the mortising operations, and leave the Wirth set up just to make tenons. The other option I have is to make a custom milled aluminum bracket to work on the Wirth for Wooodworker's Supply air-driven clamp, which I happen to have, but it is not set up for the Wirth but rather for the later, and inferior, Matchmaker.

    Maybe you could help me by taking a picture and publishing it of how your workpiece is secured when you do the mortising, that would certainly be cool!

    Thanks again, I love this machine and would like it to both operations easily, so let me know.

    Enjoy your summer!

    Gary Brant

  14. #14
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    Hi Gary, just saw this post so sorry for the delay!

    My machine has a toggle clamp mounted on the top center of the frame, and then I also clamp to the frame itself using hand clamps. For the smaller pieces I use the acrylic to position the workpiece.

    I'm in the middle of a batch of chairs and it has worked great! Will try to get some pics up.

  15. #15
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    Gary,

    I think I get what you are saying now. If the clamp doesn't hit center of the board, I put another small piece in back, and then a shim over both, and then clamp. This keeps it from rocking as you say, and still plenty of clamping pressure

    Was also considering putting a bearing on the follower tip, instead of the smooth dia pin. Just center and tap a screw, similar to a router bearing. I think that might be nice for following the tenon template
    Last edited by Carl Beckett; 07-14-2012 at 12:09 PM.

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