If given a choice of these 2 which would you pick

[Chris Padilla]

Hmm, no Festool handplane or Lie-Nielson ROS to pick from? I don't know how to vote now!!!

[Frank Pellow]

Hmm, no Festool handplane or Lie-Nielson ROS to pick from? I don't know how to vote now!!!

Well, there is a Festool handplane; but it requires a bit of electrical assistance.

[Tom LaRussa]

I am constantly amazed at how often we get into bashing Festools because they "are expensive". I guess a proper response to the question would be " would more people be buying them and not complaining about the price?

I guess, but I don't remember ever seeing anyone complaining about the price -- not among those who buy them, that is.

But since we're on the subject, I do see quite a few people referring to Festools as though they were the only tools on the planet. For example, quite often I see posts titled along the lines of "Should I buy a GX782 or a AB234 first?" (GX782 and AB234 substituting for Festool model numbers, of which I don't know any.)

The apparent assumption behind such posts would seem to be that anyone who does not immediately recognize the Festool by its model number is simply not worth conversing with.

As if the L-N plane isn't expensive! Come on, why not suggest buying a stanley on ebay if that is the issue.

I very well might have, except that the question was posed as either the Rotex or the LN.

BTW, most of my metal planes are old Stanleys, with the exception of a Miller's Falls Number 16 or 18, (can't remember the model number off hand, it's the standard pitch, adjustable-mouth block plane, quite similar to a Stanley 9 1/2), and a couple of Sargent-made Craftsmans, (also similar to the Stanley 9 1/2).

Both are wonderful tools, but you really need a dust extractor to realize the full benefits of the Rotex.

Ah-HAH!

Now I've got you!

So, how much more do I need to pay if I want to sand and breathe at the same time?

The lack of dust is simply amazing.

Sounds almost like planing, except for the noise all...

I'm not going to plane every surface I work on -- so that is where the Roptex comes into its own.

Hmmm... That's what John Miliunas used to say -- before he changed his name to John Miliunas-Lie-Nielsen-Valley.

[Tom LaRussa]

The choice here should be about the work you are going to be doing.

Mark,

That is quite true. Both the work one is doing and the context in which one is doing it effect our choices.

For those who need to get pieces done in a certain time frame for financial reasons, then I can see the need to sand.

But as demonstrated by my poll several days ago, the vast majority of us do not even try to make money at woodworking. So for most of us, where is the hurry?

Also, the mere fact that a surface is curved, or made of difficult wood, does not necessitate sanding -- at least not to any large extent.

For example, my Marilyn saw, (pic below), which is made from birdseye maple, was cut out on a band saw, shaped with Nicholson pattern maker's rasps, surfaced with a card scraper, and then given a final light sanding with a very fine 3M hand pad.

[John Weber]

Ok guys let's leave the finer points of the discussion alone. I simply did the poll as a quick way to see which way people would lean. I really though more would lean toward the sander, but with the recent surge in hand planes that might explain some of the voting. Regardless I though it was interesting as well as the comments (well most of them). I think it comes down to what we each individually value, and level of resources for our hobby. No right or wrong answer. I have the hand plane and would like the sander, especially if my DeWalt dies someday.

Thanks for participating and giving some interesting insights.

John

P.S. Tom, nice saw, I guess it's good I didn't include it in the poll, it looks wonderful, how does it cut?

[Mike Cutler]

I think I may need to add a "slight" retraction/clarification here. In my reply, when I questioned whether or not the sander would be working in 100 years it had nothing to do with the quality or longevity of the Festool Sander or the value of the sander after time, it had to more to do with a larger question, will any of the electric tools we purchase now.
When we look at the advancements in technology over the last 100 years, will all of our "forked tail" tools be quaint antiques from the bygone halcycon era of wired electricity 100 years from now? will we even have duplex receptacles to plug stuff into? will the standard still be 120vac? This was my thought process for the statement.
If I offended any one, it was not my intent at all.

[John Weber]

Mike,

I think you are exactly right. It even goes as far as comparing consumer electronics to ww equipment. It pains me to spend lots of money on a computer, stereo, TV, when I know 5, 10, 15 years from now it will be in the dump. Whereas a cabinet saw will last my lifetime and even my childrens. Now the Sawstop and similar technology may start to change that, but I'm sure when I'm gone my LN's will be worth more then I paid (it's almost that way now if you watch ebay), while not an investment - it's a nice feeling.

I don't think you offended anyone, I just thought the thread needed a slight adjustment in direction.

John

[Frank Pellow]

...
But since we're on the subject, I do see quite a few people referring to Festools as though they were the only tools on the planet. For example, quite often I see posts titled along the lines of "Should I buy a GX782 or a AB234 first?" (GX782 and AB234 substituting for Festool model numbers, of which I don't know any.)
...

That is a problem Tom, and I really dislike it when people do that.

However, the problem is not limited to Festool references. For example, I frequently see Grizzly part number number references that I need to look up if I want to be understand what type of tool is being discussed. By the way, I usually need to look up Festool references as well -I may like Festool stuff but I certainly have not memorized their part numbers.

So come on everyone, lets clean up our act and always provide sufficient context when referencing tools.

[Jim Becker]

Fuel cells and miniature nuclear reactors will replace the tails...or we may grow some of our own...

[Mark Singer]

I don't really buy tools as an investment. It is probably true that the value of handtools will surpass that of power tools over time. I have a lot of my Fathers saws and planes and still use them....it is a nice feeling. A few were even my grandfathers! Senitments aside, the real value is what it will do for you and your work. What it is worth in 50 years is not relavant if it won't help you now! Unless you are just collecting and not building. I went through many Skil saws when we were framing...they ended up trash eventually....but they really did their job when they were used. Each tool has a different purpose and one cannot replace another. It is difficult to compare a plane to a sander. We tend to get more attached to hand tools ...they are more personal..you feel connected to them. Still if you are shapping wood a sander like the Rotex is a valuable asset...and I am quite familiar with rasps spokeshaves, rifflers and scrapers. The masters of shaped pieces use power sanders...that is a fact! .I often feel that on just one project, buying the tool paid for itself......That is the real value....in the work it performs....if some day it becomes even more valuable as a collectable that is nice....if it does no work...it does not really have any value. It becomes like Collecting Baseball cards ...you become a collector.....

[Gary Max]

I never can figure out where the cord is on one of them planes

[Steve Clardy]

Fuel cells and miniature nuclear reactors will replace the tails...or we may grow some of our own...

Lol. Good one Jim.

[John Weber]

Mark,

I don't disagree, and understand tools only real purpose is to help us do work, so I guess I'm glad my daughter now uses my $3,500 desktop, and my newest machine cost less then half that and will do so much more. It's just nice to know with the purchase of a quality hand tool or a larger piece of equipment that it will last for my lifetime use in the hobby. I've gone through most of my starter tools, several drills, saws, cheaper sanders and the like, and now have an array of equipment that allows me to do most anything I want with accuracy and efficiency. I guess I'm a bit of a collector, but I enjoy having and using the tools I own. Many might even be considered luxuries, but it's my hobby and that is what I like.

John

[Mark Singer]

John,

I agree...it is eactly the same for me....I buy great stuff and I use it! That is its true value. I do like admiring them a bit...then the next project comes and off we go....

[Greg Mann]

As an owner of both the Festool Rotex and the 4 1/2 York pitch LN smoother I am a little resentful of the notion that either purchase was the result of some marketing seduction. Could I have purchased a cheaper sander or plane? Of course. But if there is truth to the adage that "A fool and his money are soon parted", as has so often been implied over the purchase of either of these brands, then how on Earth did I, and quite a few others, ever manage to hold on to enough of it to be able to make these purchases in the first place?

Greg