Small-Shop Dust Collection

[Jared McMahon]

My shop vac finally passed away after a number of years of hard work, so I'm on a break from powered woodworking until I fill that gap. This gives me an excuse to replace it with a real set-up, so I've been reading up on dust collection. This is some of the more contradictory, conflict-ridden and aggravating reading I've done in a long time. I'm trying not to get stuck in analysis paralysis so the current plan for my one-man one-car garage shop is this:

- 2HP cyclone unit (Grizzly G0440 is at the top of the short list for a few reasons)
- ~10' straight main line, 6" or 7", with several 45o laterals for machine drops
- Flex hose to the machines with either modified large dust ports or reducers, as possible

Given that my current tools consist of a G0555 bandsaw and a plunge router, I deeply hope the above is overkill. I'm trying to engineer with the plan of accommodating a 19-21" ~3HP bandsaw and a production-quality router+table, ideally also allowing two people to work at once.

So in the short-term, I have two questions.

First, for a small shop, is there such a thing as too much dust collection? Are there downsides to using strong dust collectors on lower-power machines? Or is it the case that, within reason, if lots of dust collection is good, more is better?

Second, in my reading, I see a lot of people saying a set-up *must* include some feature or other, *must* use a particular diameter of ducting, *must* etc. etc. etc., or else... or else what? It's usually never explicitly stated what the goal is. Is it safe to state that the goal of dust collection is to clear chips from the machine and pull dust through a fine-enough filter to keep the shop's air clean? And do so in such a way as to minimize chips or dust taking any other route out of the machine? I want to make sure I know the desired outcome of doing this, and to make sure I'm not planning a solution that's entirely inappropriate for my set-up.

Thanks all, and sorry for starting yet one more DC thread.

[Greg Moore]

I have been using the G0440 for several years in my one man shop. I used 6" pvc for the main line (24') with some 6" on a couple of drops. I then used 4" from there to the machines. (no grounding wires/NO problems) It works great! It handles a 20" planer, 13" planer, 8" jointer, 3hp cabinet saw, 24" drum sander, router table, SLMS, and a large wood lathe. Some times I have help and run 2-3 of the machines at one time, with no problems. I still need to figure out a simpler way to empty the 35g drum.

I would say, for your current tool collection, the G0440 is over kill. Then again, you will have room for plenty of expansion of tools/toys in the future.

[Jim Andrew]

I use both a 2hp cyclone with 6" duct, and vacuums, as the vacuum seems to work better on small tools. Have one router hooked up directly to the vac, and the thing works better than the same tool trying to operate by hooking to the router table with the cyclone. Also have a vac hooked to my ros and 4" belt sander to cut down the dust while sanding, really helps. And a vac on my sliding miter saw works somewhat. If I had more room, I'd try to figure a way to improve the miter saw dust collection. Planers and jointers work great with cyclones, smaller tools sometimes work better with vacs.

[Bas Pluim]

If all you plan to have is a band saw and router table, the G0440 is definitely overkill. A simple one-stage 1.5HP dust collector (with a canister filter) will work just fine. Don't even bother with fixed ductwork, just park it next to the bandsaw. As others have said, a shop vac works better on small tools. If you use the shop vac for the router table fence and the DC for capturing everything in the router cabinet, you're good to go.

Now, if you plan to add a jointer, planer and drum sander to your tool line up in the neat future, then definitely go for a cyclone unit. If that's still years away, I'd go for a smaller system and then upgrade later. DC technology is still improving, and more importantly, the smaller units are a lot less noisy!

[Jared McMahon]

It's sounding like the requirements for a DC set-up increase considerably when you factor in jointers, planers and sanders. I use the bandsaw to rough-dimension stock and the router for a number of select operations, but my jointer is a Stanley #7 and my thickness planer is a #5 with a cambered iron. It's beginning to sound like my money would be better invested in a 650-1000CFM single-stage collector and a workhorse of a shop vac (Festool comes to mind but I haven't yet done any research to see if their vac units are worth the price tag). I really enjoy the expediency of machines for rough work and specialized tasks, and the hands-on "personal" aspect of hand tools for all other tasks, so my set-up isn't likely to change for a while to come. And given that I'm working in a townhome between two other units, noise is always on my mind. My neighbors are fairly easy-going but I don't want to push it.

Thanks, all.

[Kevin Stricker]

Maybe check out some of the smaller cyclones by Oneida. They have several that blur the line between DC and shop vac and may be a better option for you. I believe one is called the Dust Cobra, basically a super powerful shop vac with cyclone separation.

[robert morrison]

First I would like to offer my condolences on your loss.

I would have to agreee with Bas. The cyclone will be overkill.

Noise even with a 1.5 hp will be farily loud and could bother the neighbors. If you go with a 1.5 or 2 hp canister unit you may want to make it into a 2 stage by making a Phil Thein style baffle seperator.

An advntages found on some of the expensive name brand vaccumes is variable speed. It does make them a little more versatile when hooked up to a ROS. Although my single speed (black friday special) Ridgid works just fine on my ROS. I did make a thein baffle for the shop vac to greatly reduce filter cleaning frequency and clogging.

[David Giles]

Overkill is good. DC overkill means you can stop reading DC threads and move to discussions other WW topics. Seriously, DC are like jointers. Everyone with a small one wishes they had a bigger one. But they get be with the equipment that they have. Who wants to spend their precious WW time constantly upgrading their DC system? Present company excluded, of course.

There are two methods of dust collection. The cyclones use a large air flow, but have low pressure capability. They are meant for larger diameter ducts and ports. They will not work well when the air flow openings get real small. Shop vacs generate a small air flow, but can pull higher pressure. They are nicely suited for small diameter openings and localized dust collection. For example, on a router table, the cyclone DC can keep a lot of air moving past the motor, but it needs more open area than the hole around the bit. A shopvac connected to the fence will collect lots more dust/chips in that small localized area.

[Tom Hargrove]

I couldn't imagine working without a shop vac, and I got along fine for several years without a dust collector. When I got a planer, I needed to get a single stage collector. I think your plan makes sense. A cyclone or separator for a shop vac is a big improvement, and well worth the time investment.

[Trent Shirley]

I have a Delta 1.5hp that works great when I can get it hooked up. The upper bag requires a fair amount of clearance though. One of the big benefits is that bag filters to 1 micron.
Unfortunately in my crowded shop it is hard to hook everything up and I have not yet run ducting everywhere it needs to be and I end up using my shop vac with my DW734 planer and it just cannot keep up with the planer and blows chips out at me through the front of the machine especially on the right side furthest from the DC connection.
I intend to build a Thein baffle for chip collection. It gets to be a pain to constantly empty the bag on the DC and the chip collector will make it much simpler.

Ask yourself how many machines will be in operation at once and then figure out what size DC you really need to adequately clear chips from the most productive of your machines at whatever distance it will be from your DC location. Consider how good a filter you can get for said DC.
By all means though, have a good shop vac available. Perhaps we should put together a list of various shop vacs based on power, price and size. I would like to find a more powerful machine with a smaller holding container that takes less room and effort to move around the shop and then use a chip collector in between.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Overkill is good. DC overkill means you can stop reading DC threads and move to discussions other WW topics. Seriously, DC are like jointers. Everyone with a small one wishes they had a bigger one. ....

David makes a good point - but then again for a shop your size and your current applications, you could get by probably for a number of years with a smaller unit, even a tricked out HF 2HP unit would be a huge improvement over doing nothing. There are lots of posts here on these. Search on Thien. Most folks who use these in small shops are quite satisified. Many will tell you that they don't move enough air to capture the fine dust that the bigger units will capture. Ultimately you have to decide how much you want to invest in DC. Here's one variation on the Thien that has a pretty small footprint and is somewhat portable. You might find it interesting: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...nn-conversions. My guess is that the total cost for this is ~$500 (200 for the DC, 200 for the filter, 100 for lumber, casters, fittings and hose). If you go with an oversize unit, then at least you won't grow out of it, but I think if you go with something like this, you will enjoy the build and be pleased with how it works until you do out grow it. - Choices, choices, choices.

[Keith Outten]

The Oneida Dust Cobra is a killer machine if you need a vacuum. It isn't a dust collector.
I own a Dust Cobra (portable unit) and I have one in the sign shop at CNU which is the wall mount style. They are cyclone style machines but they are high-end vacs not dust collectors. They both have HEPA filters installed and neither has ever blown any dust back into the shop. I use them to clean up my CNC router tables between jobs, they get the job done fast and they don't leave anything behind. The filters have to be cleaned but not frequently, even when you are collecting fine dust particles. We connect the long hose to ROS sanders but we have to open a valve on the hose handle to reduce the suction unless we run three or four sanders at a time.

For router tables I prefer to use a dust collector. We edge route hundreds of sign blanks per month and the DC gets a work out between the CNC Router and the router table but I can only run one machine at a time. Routing generally produces large chips and sanding produces fine dust, hence the need for two different machines to capture the effluent. The exception is cleaning up the CNC table, the Dust Cobra does a better job and it is easier to handle a two and a half inch hose than something larger in diameter.

If I had to choose only one machine it would be the dust collector, it will perform better in more situations than a vac IMO. Shop vacs are not designed to run for long periods of time, dust collectors will run all day long without complaint. There are cases where people used shop vacs, for long CNC jobs, that caught on fire.

Its common knowledge that I don't use bags or filters on my dust collectors. I use a chip box and blow the effluent outside. The HF 2 hp dust collector will perform like a very expensive machine for cheap since there isn't any back pressure. If my exterior chip box leaks a little bit it isn't inside where I have to breathe the stuff.

While my system isn't for everyone it is an alternative to the high-end systems for serious hobby and light industrial use. The total cost of the two machines is probably much less than purchasing a large cyclone system and I have the best of both worlds when you consider the capability of the Dust Cobra. Last but not least is the fact that I don't have to mess with bags, we dump the chip box only once per year on average. The dust collector in my home shop is a Grizzly 1.5 hp unit that is almost 20 years old and it still gets the job done. I couldn't count the number of days it has run all day long in the shop and most of the evenings when I was laser engraving in my shop office.
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