Need guidance on new shop

[Lou Stags]

Hello All!

I have been reading this forum off-and-on for a while now... This is my first post! We are in the process of having a new house built and it is scheduled to be done in about 5 weeks. I have been slowly getting into woodworking over the past few years. I like to do projects around the house (laying tile, some plumbing, some electrical, trim-work, flooring, etc...) but I am FAR from a woodworker (my DW will also tell you I am far from a handyman!). My fine woodworking skills are quite minimal, but now that I am finally going to have a dedicated space, I am looking forward to really diving into this wonderful passion!

My shop is going to be located in a smaller section of our daylight basement. The total shop square footage is approximately 472 square feet with 10 foot ceilings. I have a 36 inch door that leads into the backyard, so there is room to get things in and out. I have a utility sink with running water inside the shop. The main electrical panel is located on one of the walls (any concerns about having the main panel inside the shop?). The tankless hot water heater is located on one of the walls (any concerns about having this inside the shop?).

Below are some pictures of the shop as well as the floor-plan with dimensions.

Tools I currently own:
Table Saw
Chop saw
Router Table
Jointer
Drill Press
HF 2HP DC

Tools I plan on buying very soon:
Planer
Band Saw
Possibly a new DC

I have been reading a lot of threads on shop setup and configuration. I have also been reading quite a bit about dust collection as well as sound-proofing. Needless to say my head is spinning!!!!! Being such a newbie, I am most concerned that I am going to make some poor initial decisions on the setup of the shop (DC, electrical, sound-proofing, etc...) that I am just going to have to re-do down the road. I know I don't really have a whole list of specific questions in this thread, but any guidance/advice that you may have would be extremely welcomed and extremely appreciated!

I am really looking forward to this journey and meeting some great new friends here at SMC!

Thanks!

Lou

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Hi Lou - welcome!That is a great space for a shop. I wil have to think about how I might lay out tools etc, but I would like to throw out there that you could consider dropping a few walls to make a small closet out of the area where the electrical panel and HW heater are located - with the proper fresh air feed for the hwh of course. If it were me I would consider it since the wall space where they are located is likely 'lost' space anyways, and you could you use it for more shelving and miscellaneous storage.

The long area from the door (at the top of your diagram) down towards the sink is an obvious place IMO for feeding of long stock into a TS planer and jointer. You might consider a largish outfeed able for your TS that is also usable from the other direction as a outfeed area for your planer and jointer. You could also use a section in there for an assembly table/area and put the jointer and planer on mobile stands as well, to clear them out of the way when assembling or finishing.

One of the 19' walls looks ideal for a long bench and mitre saw station.You should use sketch up or some other lay out tool to play around with different options. Even graph paper with scale-sized dugouts of different tools works well - this is what I do and it is very fast to go through changes.

[Sam Layton]

Hi Lou,

Welcome to the Creek, it is a pleasure to meet you. You have a great start on your shop. One big issue for me in a shop is the ceiling height. 10 feet is very good. You will appreciate the height as you go along. I will ramble on a little... The electrical panel in the shop is OK. I am not sure about the tankless hot water heater. If it is gas fired, I don't think I would like it in the shop. I have no experience with them.

I have a stand alone shop. After I insulated the shop, I had 1/2" sound board installed, and then 5/8" drywall. The sound board helps keep the sound in the shop. The best part is the sound board is not expensive. I would install it in the complete shop, especially next to any living spaces. There are better more expensive ways to sound proof, depending on how far you want to go.

I have a 100 amp sub panel in my shop. Run enough electrical 110 and 220, to allow you to move tools around. The dust collector, air compressor, etc should have a dedicated circuit. When you run a tool, the dust collector will most likely be running. The air compressor could come on etc. You want to make sure that everything that could run at the same time will have enough power to do so. I ran 110 and 220 about every 4 or 5 feet around my shop, and several places in the ceiling. My table saw, jointer, and planer are in the middle of the shop, and plugged into the ceiling, no cords to trip over.

I ran air lines in my shop walls and ceiling. Air and electric reels from the ceiling are real handy. No cords or hoses on the floor to trip on. You may want to install air and heat in the shop. I think I would want it independent from the house. At least no return air to the house. Think about lumber storage, and clamp racks/storage.

You can go to Grizzly tools and down load a shop layout program and design your tool placement.

Good luck, keep the photo's coming, Sam

[Lou Stags]

@John: I like your idea about building a closet to enclose the panel and hot water heater. I thought about building a closet for the DC, but not for the panel and HW heater. What are your thoughts on putting the DC in a closet (primarily to help with noise control)? Also - what are your thought on how to pull off having the "proper fresh air feed for the hwh"? Thanks for your feedback!

@Sam: The HW heater is gas fired... I will have to read up more on having one of these located in a workshop. For the tools you have plugged into the ceiling, how do you manage the dangling wires from the machine up to the ceiling? I do have heat and air in the shop. The basement has its own HVAC system separate from the rest of the house. The cold air return for the basement is in a different room, so I will not have to worry too much about dust finding its way back to the return (hopefully). Thanks for your feedback!

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I like the idea of a room for a DC - but remember that the entire system is based on airflow so you need to ensure that air from the dc can flow back into the shop. The HWH also requires airflow - fresh air needed for combustion. I do not know the impact of shop dust being drawn not and through an on-demand heater......if you enclose it, you would either need to have some vents or openings into the closet from the shop (perhaps just open along the top, under the joists) or a dedicated vent from some other part of the house (or from outside) if you wanted to avoid the dust problem. The size for such a vent should be determined by your heating system installer.

[Jim Neeley]

I don't know what's through the wall behind the HWH or electrical panel but if either connects within the house, I'd want to enclose the HWH and arrange the HWH make-up air to come through one of those walls rather than through a door from the shop. I cannot speak to whether or not it'd be a hazard but I'd expect dust build-up, at a minimum, would increase the maintenance requirements of the HWH.

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim

[Shawn Russell]

I don't have anything to add, but I love the idea of having the saw, jointer and planer plugged into the ceiling.

The one concern I have is that the only light you have coming in is the door. I am in the same boat, but my door does not have a window. So I have a space with no natural light.

Sam, I do hope you will post pictures as you do the shop upgrade.

Cheers

[Jim O'Dell]

If the HWH is a sealed combustion unit, it gets it's combustion air through the vent pipe set up, I'd think you would be ok. I agree that the dust in the area might make for a little more maintenance.
The Grizzly online tool for playing with tool location is a good one. I used it and also an easy to use architecture program to model my tool placement. Still redid things once I got them in the shop, but the basic design worked well. Lots of good information on shop set ups here at the Creek. Be sure to do some research if you haven't already.
Anxious to see what you decide! Jim.

[Kevin Presutti]

Lou,
Great looking shop! After you figure out your layout that works for you and you do sufficient electric for present and possibly future power tools lighting is the next concern. I am currently putting a new kitchen in my daughters house and have chosen to go with reflective lighting as she has a galley type kitchen getting the proper amount of light was a huge endevor. After finding some lighting calculators and suffient lighting recommendations (amount of watts, lumens, etc per sq. ft.) on the internet. I went with fluorescent lights which was the most affordable and economical to run. This posed another problem. Which tubes to buy? I assume you will be lighting you shop with fluorescent lights, which is where I am going with this. I read many things on this subject as there are many, many types of color and tone which are huge issues in regards to acheiving the light you need to have in the shop. After hours of research I went with 5000K (temperature) tubes, with a CRI (color rendering index) of 82. These tubes provide the closest thing to natural daylight and provide almost pure white light. Any lower temp (cool white-4100, 3200) things appear yellow, any higher 6500 things appear blue. I purchased from HD Lithonia "Instant On" strip fixtures, and Philips F32T8/TL850 Alto ll tubes and WOW! All the years in that house I've never been able to see that well. It is like having natural, true color light. Lighting is often overlooked and most seem to think they need more fixtures, not always the case. I think I paid $20.00 for a 10 pack of tubes, I don't even have all the lights installed, I have 13 total on 3 circuits, with only 6 installed and it is better than I could have imagined. If you choose these tubes you definately won't be sorry! Best of luck on your project, I hope to see some photos as you progess.

[Lou Stags]

@Jim: The HWH and panel are on outside walls. There is open air behind both.

@Shawn: I wish I had more natural light, but unfortunately that is what I am stuck with. The lighting that I am having the builder do in the shop area amounts to 24 total 4 foot flouresent tubes (spaced evenly throughout the shop). I hope that is enough to get me started realizing I may need to add more as I go.

@Kevin: Thanks for that info on the lights! I will definitely look into them and at that price, the DW will definitely give her approval. I just moved from WNY by the way. Lived there my entire life until 6 months ago. I plan to thoroughly document every step of the shop build and I am certain I will have a lot more questions as I progess. Can't wait for the house to be completed so I can start working!

[Sam Layton]

Abby and shop plugs 029.jpg
Lou,

I used twist lock plugs to plug my table saw, planer, and jointer into the ceiling. The cords just drop down to the floor between the machines. My dust collections duct also drops from the ceiling providing dust collection for the three machines. You can get wire reinforcements to go on the plugs for drop cords. Mine drop between the machines and have never been a problem. I could secure them to the dust collection duct.

Two plugs are 30 amp 220, one is 20 amp 220, and one is 20 amp 110. All of my 220 plugs throughout the shop are twist lock plugs.

Sam

[Kent A Bathurst]

For the tools you have plugged into the ceiling, how do you manage the dangling wires from the machine up to the ceiling?

Not to speak for Sam, but from my experience, I wish I had done that years ago. I am not the electrician expert here - we got a few, and couple even speak English, not "code".

I screwed a junction box to the side of the joist, and used heavy 10 ga chord to make a drop, and used one of these strain reliefs [like these from Grainger: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/str...ecatalog/N-8fr ]. The drop from the ceiling really only needs to be above your head, so you don't smack into the plugs. I put mine at a comfortable reach height ~7'6" [I'm 6'2"]. But, what I really did was make the chord another 2' - 3' longer than that, and below the strain relief, I put in a loop and a zip-tie, so I still transfer any downward pull to the strain relief. And - If I need to, I can cut the tie to get some extra reach.

Also - on electrical - another thing I did that I really like is to run 4-wire cable in my 220v circuits. This lets me use dual-voltage receptacles at points where there is only one 220v to plug in.

General layout suggestion........get some kid's sidewalk chalk. Or, if you have them laying around, sides from cardboard boxes. You don't need to worry about the correct tool dimensions, you just want a marker for the general location. Then, play "pretend furniture making". Unload the pretend lumber from your vehicle [or use some 2x4's you have sitting around]. Bring them into the shop. Put them in the storage area. Go walk around. Come back, get a piece of pretend lumber, and take it to your........???? Cutoff saw first? For Plywood, TS first? And then, just keep moving the pretend lumber through the process of building the furniture, including assembly and finishing areas. Some machines have a natural sequence/progression to them [for me, it goes cutoff saw - TS - jointer - planer - 3-day storage area to let the wood move - jointer - planer - TS - cutoff saw]. Some machines don't have a specific place in the batting order - DP for example. So - having the DP in an out-of-the-way location works great for me, but I don't want to be taking the parts on a shop tour to get them ready for glue-up or assembly.

Last - and this might sound like heresy - there is such a thing as too much room when it comes to the machine layout. Give yourself enough room to work, but no more. Literally condense the layout to the smallest possible space. You will not have any trouble using the open spaces for assembly and finishing. FWIW - I had a long, and reasonably successful, career overhauling layouts and process flow in manufacturing operations. Space reduction of 30% - 50% was usually a trivial exercise for me, with the resulting savings of "walking around" time. Now - these were for-profit manufacturing operations, where you make money by doing stuff required to make and sell a product, and eliminating everything else that does not add value.......like taking pieces of wood for a shop tour. My shop follows these principles as closely as is possible in the space I have. You're under no obligation to be crazy....just giving you something to consider.

[Lou Stags]

Last - and this might sound like heresy - there is such a thing as too much room when it comes to the machine layout. Give yourself enough room to work, but no more. Literally condense the layout to the smallest possible space. You will not have any trouble using the open spaces for assembly and finishing. FWIW - I had a long, and reasonably successful, career overhauling layouts and process flow in manufacturing operations. Space reduction of 30% - 50% was usually a trivial exercise for me, with the resulting savings of "walking around" time. Now - these were for-profit manufacturing operations, where you make money by doing stuff required to make and sell a product, and eliminating everything else that does not add value.......like taking pieces of wood for a shop tour. My shop follows these principles as closely as is possible in the space I have. You're under no obligation to be crazy....just giving you something to consider.

That is some great advice Kent. My day-job is in IT with a heavy focus on process improvement so I can identify completely with what you are saying. I would love to see some pics of your shop layout if you have any. By the way, my wife and I are making a trip to Atlanta next weekend for a quick little getaway (we live in Knoxville, TN).

[Lou Stags]

Lou,

I used twist lock plugs to plug my table saw, planer, and jointer into the ceiling. The cords just drop down to the floor between the machines. My dust collections duct also drops from the ceiling providing dust collection for the three machines. You can get wire reinforcements to go on the plugs for drop cords. Mine drop between the machines and have never been a problem. I could secure them to the dust collection duct.

Two plugs are 30 amp 220, one is 20 amp 220, and one is 20 amp 110. All of my 220 plugs throughout the shop are twist lock plugs.

Sam

Sam, did you run the DC in between your joists? Is there living space above your shop?

[Sam Layton]

Lou,

My shop is a stand alone building in my back yard. It is a single story, no living space above. My dust collector is located in the N/W corner of the shop. I ran the ducts along the west, north, and east wall. On the N/wall I ran it through the ceiling into the attic. Then, I ran it to the machinery that is located in the middle of the shop. The duct continues through the attic to the S/wall, and drops down.

I don't mind the ducts running along the walls next to the ceiling. However, I did not want it running in the middle of the ceiling. So the attic was the best place to put it. Because of the way the shop is constructed, it would be hard to drop it down on the E and W wall.

Sam