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Thread: changing shaper bearings

  1. #1

    changing shaper bearings

    Trying to factor in the cost of replacing spindle bearings into the value of buying a used shaper. Is this something I can do, or does it require special tools, press, and a service call? I'm talking light duty industrial machines, like SCMi T110, Older MiniMax machines, Invicta Delta , powermatic, etc.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Joe,
    I can't speak for the specific machines you listed, but I've replaced the bearings on my Grizzly shaper twice in 10 years. The first time I replaced just the bearings, and it wasn't too bad using a block of wood and mallet. The second time I got lazy and just ordered the cartridge, which comes with all new bearings and takes a few minutes to replace. Since my time is worth something, this was far more pleasant and worth the extra $100 or whatever it was.

  3. #3
    http://artisans.homeunix.com:443/pro...roducts_id=177

    This is Richards site. He's the one to talk to about Delta HD shapers, and Powermatic as well. So it's 75 dollars for a powermatic rebuild. He's rebuild one of my Delta HD spindles, and it could not have been an easier process.

    I also have a SCMI T110, and can tell you that is much more massively built than the delta hd. There really is no comparison. I think the PM is a little bigger than the Delta HD, but also relatively small compared to the T110.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
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    2,855
    Hey Joe. Bearings over 20 yrs are likely to need replacing- or at least cleaning if not sealed. The SCMI, MM, SAC type machines will be more expensive due to better bearing quality. You do not want cheap bearings running at 10000 rpm with no runout. Guessing $500 deal. Felder has their bearings in the spindle cartridge so that is most likely easier. Dave

  5. #5
    I think the OP is talking about the big Delta and Powermatic shapers that have spindles very similar to the SCM. The big old Deltas are more like an SCM T130 - probably heavier. When I did the bearings in my old T130, I used a forklift to pull the spindle and took it to a machine shop to have the bearings installed. It was several hundred $ total, IIRC. The Mnin Max shapers that I'm familiar with use a miniature version of the spindle found in the T110.
    JR

  6. #6
    Correct JR, I'm talkin about the older industrial machines. With brokers driving the cost of used machinery up, it's something to consider. When I ask, i usually get a response like" I'm pretty sure they were just changed". or "the machine was completely checked out by our technician and is good to go". ...yeah right.

  7. #7
    Found this post from almost 5 years ago. The shaper ran well after the bearnings. I measured runout when I sold it, and it was something like 0.0005" - hardly measurable.

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...t-project-quot
    JR

  8. #8
    You just validated my worse nightmare...

    Oh, and by the way, machines like that are going for 3-5,000 these days.

  9. #9
    J.R. Rutter, I have followed your posts in the past on the rebuild of your SCM T130 and am now looking at buying a 15 yr old one. I've been told that the massive bearings that do so well in supporting the spindle are also massive in price. Is there any truth in this? Joe, sorry for the side track of your origional post but my question is somewhat related.
    David

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Central WI
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    David, When you get the bearing spec give Accurate Bearings a call. They are the place that the OWWM guys get their bearings and the old machines use some huge ones. They are reasonable and give great info. Bound to be cheaper than going through SCMI. J R, maybe you could also speak as to whether those bearings can be cleaned out and regreased or not. Dave

  11. #11
    If I remember correctly, I found the bearing specs by downloading the manual / parts diagrams from partspronto.com, then looked up the bearing part numbers in their online system. This gave the actual bearing specs. The SCM prices were quite high. I think that there are some Belleville (sp?) washers at one end. I ended up ordering bearings somewhere online - Accurate Bearings sounds like a great source. The originals and replacements were sealed. The SCM manuals typically do not cover any actual maintenance procedures aside from things like belt changes, but they do a good job with exploded parts diagrams, so if you study the drawings it should make sense.
    JR

  12. #12
    Thank you David and JR on where to get bearings
    David

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Bigger and better quality bearings do cost quite a bit more. Replacing the bearings in my Powermatic 27 probably cost less than $50 and took me maybe an hour to do. Replacing the bearings in my Martin shaper cost right around $700 and took quite a bit more time. For me it was well worth spending another $170 (on sale with a coupon) for a HF press to do it myself.

    One thing that makes a significant difference in cost is the class of bearing. I read a lot of posts online saying that ABEC 7's were required for heavy duty shapers. When I called around I found that 5's were more the norm. Then I called Martin and found that 5's were the originals and that's what I went with.

    At the end of the day there's no comparison between the lighty duty Delta's and Powermatics, and the bigger industrial machines. If you can get into something like a T-130 rebuilt, (by you or others), for under $4k I'd say your in good shape, just compare to the cost of new! Brokers may add a bit to the cost of a machine, but I've never seen stuff sell as cheap as it is now.

    good luck,
    JeffD

  14. #14
    Good info Jeff. I have access to a press, and I have a chain hoist if needed, so I would have no additional cost there. Show me a T130 for under $4k that looks worth buying and I'll jump. I'm just not seeing anything.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by joe milana View Post
    Good info Jeff. I have access to a press, and I have a chain hoist if needed, so I would have no additional cost there. Show me a T130 for under $4k that looks worth buying and I'll jump. I'm just not seeing anything.
    Joe, if you don't mind my asking, what are you planning to do with your shaper? Basically, the scmi line from the past boiled down to t110, t130, and t160. I have a t110, and it's a pretty robust machine, but not super heavy duty like a t130. The t130 is heavy duty, and heavy- much more dense than a unisaw or the like, and will take some head scratching to move around. The t160 adds tilting spindle, and is even heavier. That said, I have turned some monster sized cutters with my t110, and it works OK. I think that the added mass of the larger machines would translate to added rigidity.

    As for pricing, I've seen a t130 with side mounted tenoning table available for at least a year for 9k, and guess what, nobody is buying it. T110s sell at irsauctions for about 2k. The bigger machines go for more, but it is not consistantly more. Also, you would probably want a machine from an archetectural company, or something like that. My t110 was used by a company that makes corporate displays to make an occaisional molding. 20 years old, but not much use.

    My suggestion for buying is to zig while others zag. irsauctions is the gold standard for woodworking machine auctions, and is very well followed, with good pricing. I was able to scroung up my t110 for about 800 dollars with a delta (steff?) feeder from a small auction, from a company that mostly auctions food equipment, during the Christmas season. And I do see other good deals on occaision. But you need to look, every day. For example, I might see only 2-3 super deals on shapers each year, which means that if I were actively looking to buy, I would see one every hundred days or so. And that is a maybe. Do you go to the local auctions? Scmi shapers are the big mac of the shaper world, they are out there in some numbers, and they will go into local auctions. I've seen equipment go for dirt cheap prices at live auctions, it all depends on who else shows up.
    Last edited by Stephen Cherry; 10-30-2011 at 1:10 PM.

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