[OP]
Contributor
I have a HF DC and there is a guy on the auction site that has this cyclone built to mod several different brands of DC's. Im wondering if anybody has personal experience with this or what the general opinion is? I'm totally lost when it comes to a cyclone but I do believe that it will do better than my DC. Here's the link if you would take a look and tell me what you think: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cyclone-Sepa...item3ef67a7a8b
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I have a 6" one connected to a similar sized Jet blower/motor and like it. But it is installed outside without the dust canister. I suspect that the cyclone plus dust canister will significantly limit the blower air flow. But would still be better than most canister DC with the filter plugged by fine dust.
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Keep in mind that a cyclone is only a method of separating large dust and chips from very small particle dust. It's correctly advertised as a "separator". It does not increase the efficiency of the dust collector. At best is will funnel more dust into the collection barrel so you don't need to clean the filter as frequently. In fact, a cyclone will reduce the CFM of your existing dust collector to some extent.
Howie.........
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I got this exact unit about 1 year ago. I called the manufactuer who was great to work with. He changed the input on the left side from the right side at no additional cost. Mine came within the week and packed very nice. I used the motor and impeller from a Delta unit. I simply turned the Delta unit on its side and mounted it on top of the cyclone. I used 6" hvac pipe without any proplem at all. I vented mine right out the side of the shop so I didn't have to deal with any filters. Just be aware that if your in a cold climate you may be porting your warm air out the side of your shop when you turn it on so a filter might be the right thing for you. For me, it's not an issue. I can tell you that this setup is so efficent that I asked my wife to put the entire contents of the dust collector bag on the Delta unit, as fast as possible, to see if any dust AT ALL was ported out the side of the shop. NONE, not one bit was visable from the exhaust port. After 1 year, there is no fine dust on the side of the shop. I don't know what it would take to overload the system, but I can tell you, mine has never even be close to it. I think the ease of emptying the system in the nicest thing about it. As far as safety, you no longer have to worry about explosion or fire from getting a stray screw or piece of metal in your impeller and causing a spark .
IMHO this was the best upgrade I've ever done. I dont think you could go wrong.
Ken ( I'd be glad to answer any other questions if you need it before you buy.)
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.
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It's all about what you set out to achieve Andrew. The primary point of a cyclone is that by capturing the vast majority of chips and fine dust coming through (good ones get down to particles a couple of microns or thereabouts in size) it lets you run a fine HEPA standard filter cartridge without it blocking too quickly to be economic. Which if the rest of the system is correctly set up is basically what it takes to deliver medically acceptable clean air quality.
Most hobby/DIY level bag filter dust systems don't filter to a fine enough level - they leak the fine dust and actually recirculate the stuff that is medically dangerous.
The other downside of a basic unit is that they often don't move enough air to give really effective dust collection at the machine - at least not with most (fairly basic) hooding/dust trapping arrangements. Dust gets thrown clear and makes it into the air.
It's all on Bill Pentz's pages, this one covers the basics: http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/DCBasics.cfm Not everybody can commit the money or time needed to get to this standard, and some report good results with lower airflows and careful hood and ducting set up.
Some cyclones don't work very well, they capture the chip but blow through the fine dust. This one looks reasonably proportioned, but a lot depends on how it's set up internally too. I'd look for feedback from other users if possible.
The other question I suppose is whether or not the HF system you have is a decent basis for a more efficient system or not - whether it moves enough air etc. I don't know anything about it, but keeping the hose runs very short as on a mobile collector is one way of greatly improving the situation when you're a little short of fan HP....
ian
Last edited by ian maybury; 11-07-2011 at 9:22 AM.
Member
Do a search here and you'll find a more complete thread on this unit.
The seller is a metal bender not an engineer or air handling specialist. He didn't understand the purpose of a "neutral vane" which reduces turbulence and improves separation, so did not include one in his units, though current units may have one. Also they do not include a slanted, spiral inlet ramp. Otherwise, they appear to be well constructed, though lack some of the design elements that improve fine dust separation in Pentz units. That is not much of a consideration if you plan to vent outside. You may find, however, that adding a cyclone, keeping the filter, and having long and/or inefficient duct runs will over-tax your HF blower.
Basic cyclone (top view):
Cylcone w/neutral vane:
Cyclone w/neutral vane and spiral inlet ramp:
Last edited by Alan Schaffter; 11-07-2011 at 10:53 AM.
Member
From the seller: "Both of these cyclones include a neutral vane and the inlet slopes down approximately 15 degrees."
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cyclone-Sepa...item3ef67a7a8b
Was also contemplating buying this very same unit and connecting it to this blower: http://www.drillspot.com/products/50...l_Blade_Blower
The same Leeson 5hp motor that Clearvue uses is available on Amazon for $350 http://www.amazon.com/3450rpm-208-23...0681837&sr=1-1
Include a filter from Wynn Environmental, a few electrical components and the whole thing comes in under $1,200. Tempted to go this route over the Onieda I'd been looking at....
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I think you need to work your way down the decision tree.
Do you plan to vent any or all of the dust outside? If yes, do you plan to vent all of the dust outside, or just the fine dust? If just the fine dust, you need some kind of separation. If all of the dust, no need for any separation at all- all you need is the impeller and the motor- just plum the duct through the wall to a bin outside.
If you need a separator, I think the next question is whether you plan to vent ANYTHING outside. If you don't want to vent anything outside, it's highly recommended that you go with a Cyclone with a big motor and a high-efficiency (aka "fine") filter. In this scenario, you will want to get the best cyclone and the best filters you can afford. Building your own based on Pentz's design, or buying a Clear Vue cyclone are probably your best bet. Lots more money than you're considering here though.
If you plan to vent the fine dust outside, but keep the coarse chips inside, you don't need the separation to be perfect. So a cyclone like the one you're considering would probably fit the bill. Also, many users have reported success with just a Thien separator (tons of info on this site about them- just do a search). You may get some visible fine dust outside with the Thien separator, but if you don't have any neighbors close by, it shouldn't be a problem.
If you want the best you can get, but you don't have the money to go the Clear Vue route, then the compromise may be venting the fine dust outside using your HF motor and the Ebay cyclone. If you live in an extreme climate and your shop is heated and/or air conditioned, remember that venting outside will suck your heat or A/C out of the shop. For some, this isn't a big deal since the DC is only turned on for short periods of time. But if you're milling a lot of lumber and you have the DC on for an hour, you will negate all of your climate control efforts. Also, if you're working in a garage with a furnace in it, I've heard that the pressure caused by venting the dust outside can cause problems, but I don't know exactly what they are. Just research it if that's the case for you.
I currently have a Thien separator on my 4-bag 3hp Grizzly dust collector, with two big fine filters from Wynn Environmental. It works okay, but the filters clog more often than I would like. Also, my modifications (adding the filters and replacing the bottom bags with plastic bags) have caused the DC to leak fine dust... I've tried and tried but I can't seem to get the thing sealed. It mostly leaks where the bags clamp on. So the leaks kind of defeat the whole purpose of fine filtration.
So at some point, I'm probably going to look at using the cyclone you're referring to with my grizzly motor and impeller, and vent the fine dust outside.
Hope that helps!
Member
The problem occurs if there is an insufficient source of DC make-up air or it is restricted in any way. Unless you've got closed systems, instead of going up the flu, the DC will suck furnace and water heater exhaust gasses into the shop where they will mix with the shop air. Flu gasses typically contain a fair amount of colorless, odorless, tasteless, but very deadly carbon monoxide (CO). Since CO is absorbed by the hemoglobin in your blood much more readily than oxygen, is cumulative, and very hard to purge, a small concentration of it can easily build up to deadly levels in a short time without you knowing it. Check it out here, it's pretty scarey stuff!!Originally Posted by Peter Aeschliman
Last edited by Alan Schaffter; 11-07-2011 at 1:28 PM.
Member
I'm pretty sure this unit has a neutral vain that works pretty good. It extends over halfway through the unit to get the proper air spiral started. I'm going to put some cheese cloth over the vent to see if ANYTHING is being vented outside. I still say I've never seen anything venting and we poured a huge load of course and fine through it.
I've been asked to post some pics and I've tried, so let's hope this comes up.
Good luck.... Ken
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.
[OP]
Contributor
I appreciate all the great information. Like many people my budget is limited and I want the best bang for my buck. I would need to vent inside since it is in my basement and in a close residential area. I already have a Wynn spun bond filter that I purchased when I originally bought the HF DC. The LOML is complaining about the fine dust, so my intention is to try and stop that problem. Plus being in Toledo it is a little hard to take a filter outside to spray/hose it off to clean it during the winter months.
Contributor
I'd maybe take a look at the super dust deputy also, works along with a single stage DC like the ebay model. I'm not sure which one would do a better job of seperating the fine dust though.
A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. My desk is a work station.
Member
I'd go with the cyclone and a good filter and call it a day. I'm telling you this thing gets all the fines I've created with the Table Saw, Router Table, Bandsaw, Jointer, Planer, Drill press, sanders, and floor sweep as far as I can tell.
Best of luck on your decision.... Ken
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.
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