[OP]
Contributor
I'm building some maple kitchen cabinets and am considering finishing with a clear waterborne conversion varnish. Sherwin Williams Kemvar has been recommended; does anyone have personal experience with this product? I searchd the finishing forum and couldn't find any Kemvar references. I used a clear poly on my last job but don't care for the plastic look after 3 or 4 coats buildup. I'm going to apply the finish with an HVLP sprayer.
Last edited by scott vroom; 12-15-2011 at 8:24 PM. Reason: brain-o
Scott Vroom
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
Member
Haven't tried the Kemvar but I can recommend you try General finishes enduro var. Its very tough, adds enough amber to warm up most species. I've sprayed it on maple and really liked results. Its not a conversion varnish, but its been in service on a cab under a sink I did for a client for over two years, no problems. I also put it on some drawer boxes for pot pull outs, and used the remainder on some flooring in my own basement. Seems to be doing well there too. I bought mine from woodcraft, but Homestead also sells it. I haven't tried it yet but TARGET EM2000 water born alkyd varnish has also been recommended to me as a good substitute for solvent based with a warm solvent like glow.Originally Posted by scott vroom
http://www.targetcoatings.com/produc...d-varnish.html
Last edited by Peter Quinn; 12-15-2011 at 8:46 PM.
Contributor
I spray the solvent based SW conversion and really like it but not the WB. The cabinet people in my area swear by SW products so I have to believe they make a good waterbase product. Several local cabinet guys told me the only finish they never have a call back on is the solvent base. Don't know how long they will be available but I will use until then. Dave
Member
Used EM2000 on mahogany kitchen cabs...great stuff. *
[OP]
Contributor
Truth be told I'm riding the WB wave not so much because of environmental concerns but because my shop isn't setup to safely handle SB products. What setup do you have to handle solvent based spraying?
Scott Vroom
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
[OP]
Contributor
Peter, some yellowing or "ambering" appeals to me with white maple....I was concerned about using one of the water clear finishes. I'm going to look into the GF Enduro-var. Thanks for your comments.
Scott Vroom
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
Contributor
Scott, I'm a pretty low volume guy but use a 40"x60" spray panel with plywood top and sides and a floor on top of saw horses. The 12" fan has a little larger pulley and runs on a vfd to keep the flow up. I exhaust through a 12" flex tube hooked to a square of plywood. When I spray I remove a 20x20" square of siding from the shop( so it's hidden when closed) and vent outside. When I need to spray large items I take then to a cabinet shop with a big booth and pay for the privilege of not having to clean my stuff. The spray "booth" breaks down and sits on a wheeled cart so I push it against a wall. The 12" fan with a 3/4 hp motor seems to expel pretty well. DaveTruth be told I'm riding the WB wave not so much because of environmental concerns but because my shop isn't setup to safely handle SB products
Member
I use Targets EM8000 waterbased conversioin varnish and am quite happy with it. It is purely clear however so if you want to mimick solvent based varnish you'll need to add a couple drops of dye. Probably Transtint amber would give the "warmth" you're looking for, but someone else would know better than I.
Mark R
Member
Two other approaches we have used at work involve a combination of products. One starts with a wipe on oil poly product,, like minwax wipe on or similar. One coat adds the color to warm things up, then after drying thouroughly, we top coat with a water white 2k which adds great protection but absolutely no color. The other strategy involves shellac as either the primary sealer or as a barrier coat between a wiping oil first coat and the water borne top coats. You can tint the shellac sanding sealer a touch as required. Of course you run into problems spraying the shellac just like a solvent based lacquer. I pad it on quickly to avoid explosions. With the general endurovar I simply pre raised the grain then used the endurovar it's own sanding sealer, minimal grain raising from that product.
Contributor
This is a little extra work but you can shoot amber dewaxed shellac as a sanding sealer, then shoot the water based. The shellac gives an amber tone to the finish and provides a seal to keep the water based from raising the grain. If you shoot WB directly on the wood, you'll usually have to lightly sand the first coat to knock down the grain raised by the water.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
I've used all kinds of finishes for kitchen cabinets without complaints, except for the water based, including just plain sanding sealer and varnish from SW, to lacquer and poly.
That solvent based conversion varnish is nasty to spray in your workspace, place I worked years ago had a spray booth, separate from the cabinet shop. They had so many problems with the city, they went to all prefinished box parts, and just spray the fronts and doors.
[OP]
Contributor
I'm beginning to understand why some folks say that finishing is as much art as science. I'm intrigued by the notion of a hand applied solvent based sealing/sanding coat to get the amber color I'm seeking, and then finishing with a sprayed waterbourne varnish for durability.
I've read that conversion varnish and poly were difficult to "reverse", which I gather means they are difficult to strip and refinish. OK, no problem....how many people are really interested in stripping/refinishing kitchen cabinets anyway? More likely a person would want to lightly sand (scuff) and respray after 10 years or so...would this be a problem with conversion varnish or poly?
My quest for the perfect maple finish continues...
Scott Vroom
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
Contributor
Scott, with minimal care conversion varnish should not fail and last as long as your wife wants the cabinets. WB is slightly less durable than solvent based but should still outlive us. Dave
Member
+! I used the EM2000 on my bloodwood cabinets. I can't really comment on long term durability as it's been less that a year.
Rich
ALASKANS FOR GLOBAL WARMING
Eagle River Alaska
Member
What kind of complaints have you had with waterborne finishes?
Rich
ALASKANS FOR GLOBAL WARMING
Eagle River Alaska
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