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Thread: Carving Progress Pic & More Questions

  1. #1
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    Carving Progress Pic & More Questions

    Okay, I've started the carved plaque for my beautiful bride's anniversary gift. It isn't perfect, but for my first crack I'm pretty well pleased. Wolf, I didn't take your suggestion of painting and then carving through. It's a beautiful look, but to my eye it looks a little too country for my wife's style. I did on the other hand take your advice on honing with the ceramic stone. It's hard to judge without having anything to baseline off of, but the knife did seem to work a little easier after a couple of swipes.

    Now for the questions. For the bulk of the sign, I wanted pretty big letters ("Sharp" is 1.25" tall). When I looked at normal Roman fonts, the line widths on letters that big seemed awfully wide (which would translate into deep) for an amateur to carve. I found the font you see below that incorporates some negative space to keep the max line width down, but the problem with it is the way different line widths merge and intersect. That seems like it might be a bigger challenge than just bearing down and going deep. What do y'all think?

    And since I am carving on raw wood, I'm still undecided on final finish. My thoughts are to either in-paint the letters with a dark color, sand the surface to get rid of any slop, then clearcoat, or just clearcoat then wax with a dark wax to highlight the carving. Opinions?

    Thanks again for all the great advice, with your help I'm going to lick this whole letter carving thing yet.
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  2. #2
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    Has the makings of a beautiful anniversary present. I'm sure she'll like it.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dunn
    Has the makings of a beautiful anniversary present. I'm sure she'll like it.
    Thanks Jim, I appreciate that. Like I said before, even if it comes out ugly I think she'll like it anyway just because it's my first. Kind of like when your kids bring home artwork from summer camp.

    Any opinions on the finish or font?

  4. #4
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    Will it fit on the refridgerator?

  5. #5
    Not that I have ever carved anything and my hat is off to you for even giving it a shot, but I think that you should use a font without the serifs (sans serif) Serifs are the little embellishments at the end of the characters like at the of the A in sharp. It will not look as classy, but you are already dealing with enough since this is your first shot that all those extra angles are going to be a bear to contend with.

    As far as finishing I would just use Watco Danish Oil, easy to apply and with enough coats it will provide a nice luster and amber color.
    I can pay retail anywhere, so how's your service?
    Grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory one project at a time
    Maker of precision cut firewood


  6. #6
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    Bart,
    Great start so far. I'm no carving expert having just learned myself, but I'll take a stab at your questions...

    Font - Personally, the font you've chosen with the negative spces looks difficult to do (more so than going deeper/wider), and difficult to finish properly. I went through the same process as you in trying to find a good font. You're correct in that many are too wide, resulting in a deep cut. In the pictures below, the font used was "Goudy". I just went through all that were offered in MS Word until I found one I liked. I will disagree with Michael about the serifs. I like them and they're not too hard to do.

    Finish - I think it depends on how far away you want your sign to be viewed. For viewing from a distance, it would seem painting would help readability. If strictly an interior piece to be viewed close up, then you don't have to have so much contrast. In the pics below, the first one is cherry with nothing more than and oil and wax finish. The second is maple that was dyed, so the letters stand out a bit more.

    One other note. Spacing between letters can be very important to the overall look of carved lettering. In your "The", I think the letters are a bit too close together and would read better if more space was between them. Not a criticism, just a suggestion.

    Keep up the good work,
    Tom
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Scott
    Bart,
    Great start so far. I'm no carving expert having just learned myself, but I'll take a stab at your questions...

    Font - Personally, the font you've chosen with the negative spces looks difficult to do (more so than going deeper/wider), and difficult to finish properly. I went through the same process as you in trying to find a good font. You're correct in that many are too wide, resulting in a deep cut. In the pictures below, the font used was "Goudy". I just went through all that were offered in MS Word until I found one I liked. I will disagree with Michael about the serifs. I like them and they're not too hard to do.

    Finish - I think it depends on how far away you want your sign to be viewed. For viewing from a distance, it would seem painting would help readability. If strictly an interior piece to be viewed close up, then you don't have to have so much contrast. In the pics below, the first one is cherry with nothing more than and oil and wax finish. The second is maple that was dyed, so the letters stand out a bit more.

    One other note. Spacing between letters can be very important to the overall look of carved lettering. In your "The", I think the letters are a bit too close together and would read better if more space was between them. Not a criticism, just a suggestion.

    Keep up the good work,
    Tom
    Those are some nice looking chests, Tom. Did you do the carving with a chip knife?

    I agree with you on the letter spacing in "THE", it would have been better spaced out more. It's already carved, so I'm going to call that a lesson learned for next time. The good news is that the rest of the words are spaced out more.

    I was a little concerned about the serifs at first, but so far they haven't been too big of a problem. It takes a little extra time to clean up the bottom of the cuts, but my cuts aren't that clean yet even on the straight runs. Plus they look much better IMO than san-serif.

    I'm leaning towards ditching the negative space. Decisions, decisions....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Ballent
    Not that I have ever carved anything and my hat is off to you for even giving it a shot, but I think that you should use a font without the serifs (sans serif) Serifs are the little embellishments at the end of the characters like at the of the A in sharp. It will not look as classy, but you are already dealing with enough since this is your first shot that all those extra angles are going to be a bear to contend with.

    As far as finishing I would just use Watco Danish Oil, easy to apply and with enough coats it will provide a nice luster and amber color.
    I love Watco, but has anyone ever used it on basswood? I'm afraid it would splotch.

  9. #9
    Not sure what it would look like on basswood. I did not realize that you were carving on that wood, isn't it pretty soft? If you happen to have a piece of basswood from sizing your work I would give it a dip... When I mentioned to use Watco, I was just thinking of the natural with out any staining, that should avoid that whole splotchy mess
    I can pay retail anywhere, so how's your service?
    Grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory one project at a time
    Maker of precision cut firewood


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Ballent
    Not sure what it would look like on basswood. I did not realize that you were carving on that wood, isn't it pretty soft? If you happen to have a piece of basswood from sizing your work I would give it a dip... When I mentioned to use Watco, I was just thinking of the natural with out any staining, that should avoid that whole splotchy mess
    I guess I didn't include many of the important details in this thread. Basswood is very soft which is exactly why I'm using it. I'm a rank beginner, and the carving is enough of a challenge without trying to cut something harder.

    The other limitation is that I don't have a shop anymore, so no bottles of different finishes laying around to try, or anyplace to store anything I might buy. Wolf suggested poly as the safe bet for basswood, so I'll probably go that way.

    What do you think about painting in the letters? Based on what Tom posted, I'm leaning towards not painting. If I don't, what do you thinik of a dark wax that would add a little contrast to the crevices?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bart Sharp
    I guess I didn't include many of the important details in this thread. Basswood is very soft which is exactly why I'm using it. I'm a rank beginner, and the carving is enough of a challenge without trying to cut something harder.

    The other limitation is that I don't have a shop anymore, so no bottles of different finishes laying around to try, or anyplace to store anything I might buy. Wolf suggested poly as the safe bet for basswood, so I'll probably go that way.

    What do you think about painting in the letters? Based on what Tom posted, I'm leaning towards not painting. If I don't, what do you thinik of a dark wax that would add a little contrast to the crevices?
    One thing to keep in mind is that as you cut into the wood you are exposing end grain so anything that you apply should absorb more finish thereby making it darker.

    One thing that I cannot emphasize enough though is that you really want to test out any finish on scraps, preferably from the piece of wood, before applying it to the final project. You are putting in a lot of time and effort to your carving so why take a chance of goofing something up on the final project. When ever I do a project, no matter how big or small I make sure I keep some of the scraps around so that I can test any finish I may want to use. I like to use 3" by 3" or larger pieces of scrap and put my finish on it all the way from sanding, staining (if I want to use that), to poly/shellac/wax. That way you will have a much better idea of what the final product will look like.

    I would recommend that you get some more basswood if you do not have any pieces available, carve some letters on it ( more practice ), sand the whole thing then either cut it up or tape off sections so that you have letters in each section and then apply all the layers of finish you want to test. This will give you a better feel of the final project's look.
    I can pay retail anywhere, so how's your service?
    Grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory one project at a time
    Maker of precision cut firewood


  12. #12
    Bart, I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, but I'll answer the question I think you asked. The rule in letter carving is vertical wide, horizontal narrow. Where the two intersect should be two different depths, in other words the horizontals and diagonals should be about half the depth of the verticals.
    Dennis

  13. #13
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    I think I can help you on preventing Splotching. Jeff Hewitt suggested I size some carved work I had done as the cross grain portions were drinking up the water based dye I was using and becoming extremely dark. There are many kinds of sizing. The kind I used is a water based Fuhrs #155. It is a clear non viscous liquid that dries quickly. It strikes into the end grain areas deeply, but in the face grain it doesn't penetrate much. After it is dry sand it with a fine paper (220 perhaps) It almost disappears from the face grain but some stays deep in the end grain. The result is your next coats penetrate these areas much less, but penetrate the face grain about the same as they would if you hadn't sized them.

    I wish I could give you the before and after on these legs, but I don't have the before pictures. I had a practice leg I had done as a prototype and tried to dye it without the size. The knee area, parts of the ball, and parts of the claw came out black, almost, while the calf and shin were the wanted color. After sizing and sanding they came out as you can see them at www.eyman.org/furniture. Click on the thumbnails of the two chairs and I think you'll see what I mean.

    You might get the same effect with very dilute shellac, but I'd try it first.
    18th century nut --- Carl

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis McDonaugh
    Bart, I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, but I'll answer the question I think you asked. The rule in letter carving is vertical wide, horizontal narrow. Where the two intersect should be two different depths, in other words the horizontals and diagonals should be about half the depth of the verticals.
    Thanks Dennis, that makes sense. What about the font in the picture I posted, where the verticals are mad up of wide lines and narrow lines, with negative space inbetween them? For example, how would you go about carving the top of the "A" where the narrow left leg intersects with the two parts (one thin, one thick) of the right leg?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Eyman
    I think I can help you on preventing Splotching. Jeff Hewitt suggested I size some carved work I had done as the cross grain portions were drinking up the water based dye I was using and becoming extremely dark. There are many kinds of sizing. The kind I used is a water based Fuhrs #155. It is a clear non viscous liquid that dries quickly. It strikes into the end grain areas deeply, but in the face grain it doesn't penetrate much. After it is dry sand it with a fine paper (220 perhaps) It almost disappears from the face grain but some stays deep in the end grain. The result is your next coats penetrate these areas much less, but penetrate the face grain about the same as they would if you hadn't sized them.

    I wish I could give you the before and after on these legs, but I don't have the before pictures. I had a practice leg I had done as a prototype and tried to dye it without the size. The knee area, parts of the ball, and parts of the claw came out black, almost, while the calf and shin were the wanted color. After sizing and sanding they came out as you can see them at www.eyman.org/furniture. Click on the thumbnails of the two chairs and I think you'll see what I mean.

    You might get the same effect with very dilute shellac, but I'd try it first.
    Great advice Carl, thanks. I'm hoping to have the carving finished by the end of the day today, then it's on to getting serious about finish.

    Michael, since I don't have the facilities to keep a bunch of different finishing products, I'm afraid that my ability to make test samples will be almost nil.

    On the risk scale, it looks like going straight to some kind of clear will be more of a sure bet than trying to stain. Wolf suggested poly, so that will probably be my go-to. This is a first try, so if it comes out legible and reasonably presentable, that will be a win. Hopefully as I keep going then I can do more experimenting to perfect the look.

    Great advice everyone, thanks. Hopefully I will be able to post some pictures tomorrow of the completed carving!

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