First time user of aniline stain - water based

[Paul Seminara]

New guy here. First post. First time user of water soluble dry powder stain. Long time finisher/refinisher.

I'm finishing a new birch gun stock, my goal was a deep wine red. I achieved the goal using Behlen aniline stain RED B366-0042. I finished with Fairtrimmer's Military oX oil wood finish -3 coats, followed with two coats on wax. The stocks (aka "furniture" in the Russian accented parlance) look beautiful. The problem is I get a little bleed through of the red.

1) Final shape sand.
2) Smooth sand.
3) Raise grain with H20, three times. Final time, zero raised fibers.
4) Mix stain full strength per little jar (methanol and water), strain, etc. WOW stuff is some stain.
5) Apply with brush - and wow again - the wood takes it in like a sponge. Wipe down well.
6) Allow to dry well.
7) Color sand and buff to luster with dry cheese cloth.
8) Apply coats and hand rub wood oil per instructions. Allow to cure (polymerize)
9) Wax (Minwax)

It's not like pure red comes off on my hands, just occasionally - washes off with soap and water.

Should I strip the wax and oil or ???

Ideas and input welcome.

[Prashun Patel]

It sounds like your oil and wax finishes have not sealed in the color properly. It's usually recommended to follow the aniline dye with a coat of shellac or varnish to seal in the color.

When I want a dyed, yet in-the-wood oil-type finish, I usually just add a small bit of varnish to the oil. You have to be a little quicker about wiping off the finish between coats bkz it'll get tacky, but it's possible to get a similar effect as a pure oil finish (at least for me) with this technique.

[Paul Seminara]

This could be true - I would say if I rushed anything, it was the time between oil coats. I had the distinct impression I was only dissolving the the previous oil with successive coating. Also the dye is so very powerful - you know how red is - just the tiniest particle of red dust comes through and the problem is much magnified.

I will allow a waiting period - maybe until spring! If it continues, then I will remove the wax and oil with some mineral spirits - then go from there. Possibly with a seal coat.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm just not sure the oil and wax will EVER provide enough of a barrier for the dye. The aniline dye - while 'more' water soluble than oil soluble, is still partially soluble in oil. That's why it's usually recommended to seal it in with something that forms an impervious barrier like a varnish or shellac.

[Scott Holmes]

You will most likely continue to have the red bleed. The oil and wax do very little to seal the wood, nor do they provide much protection against water. So the dye will be reacting with water vapor and sweat until it's SEALED. Oil and wax can't seal it. A light spray coat of shellac will seal it; wax, oil, and all.

[Paul Seminara]

Is there a light varnish you recommend?

[Paul Seminara]

If I strip the off the wax and oil, will a shellac adhere OK? Or are you saying shellac over the top??

I think mineral spirits will do an OK job of getting back to the dye and as noted will take some of the dye away. Then basically start over with a sealer.

[Scott Holmes]

Shellac will stick to the wax and oil just fine. Any poly varnish will NOT STICK to the wax and oil. A light spray coat of shellac from a rattle can will seal it and then you can steelwool it to a nice satin in-the-wood look.

[Paul Seminara]

Shellac will stick to the wax and oil just fine. Any poly varnish will NOT STICK to the wax and oil. A light spray coat of shellac from a rattle can will seal it and then you can steelwool it to a nice satin in-the-wood look.

Thanks - that is EXACTLY why I was suspicious of the ability of the shellac to adhere. Because I KNEW varnish wouldn't!

[Dustin Keys]

I've only used a water based aniline dye once, and when I did I finished with Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil. That was a couple of years ago, and I've never had any of the problems you are describing. The piece in question was a guitar neck that gets a lot of play. The dye stain worked well and the Tru Oil has proven to be very durable. That product was originally intended for gun stocks, so you might give it a try instead.

D

[Paul Seminara]

Thanks - what color did you use? How deeply did you stain it? I wonder if the Birchwood Casey stuff has better sealers/more varnish.

[Scott Holmes]

Actually poly varnish wont stick; the non poly varnishes will stick much better than the poly varnish.

[Paul Seminara]

Interesting.

So I striped the wax and oil off with 99% IPA. Naturally this pulled some of the surface dye off. Not necessarily a bad thing. The surface remained nice and smooth, plus it retained the rich, distressed wine red look. After air drying for a few hours in a warm room I sprayed it lightly with a bomb can of Zinsser Shellac (clear). Wow way too glossy and it made the red super bright looking, but I will let it cure for a couple hours.........and rub it down with 000 synthetic steel wool pads.

[Scott Holmes]

Yeap shellac is a gloss finish unless you add a flattening agent to it.

[Paul Seminara]

I shouldn't have any problem knocking the gloss down a tad. I was more surprised how the shellac made the red POP. Seems all dry now, I'll let it set up and outgas overnight.