Project Fail / Anti-Boast

[Eddie Knapp]

So i'm a hobbyist (at best), and got the bug after taking a class at the Philadelphia Furniture workshop, so last year, i went out and got a couple tools on sale at lowes, and have slowly added over the past year. With the addition of my first kid, there hasn't been any time, and i just picked it up again recently. I finished my first project with a number of valuable lessons, and very thankful that I decided to go with the cheap-o poplar from Home Depot instead of good hardwood. I made wine racks. They turned out pretty decently.

I'm now on to cutting boards. I figured i'd make a few of them (i owe christmas gifts), so i headed out to Hearne's hardwood (which was a very cool shop) and proceeded to have my first fail. I did the math wrong (using thewoodwhisperer's cutting board plans), and for 3 cutting boards bought 25 board feet of 8/4 cherry and 25 board feet of 8/4 hard maple. I didn't need that much. BTW - anyone in philadelphia needs any 8/4 cherry or 8/4 hard maple...i'll sell it at 50% off.

Fail #1.

Fail #2: My table Saw:

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This is the aforementioned lowes sale item. I picked it up for about 70 bucks (it might have even been $50). It actually works pretty good. I made a decent sled for the wine rack cuts, and i've got a 6" dado stack that does the job (although the bolt that holds teh blades isn't large enough to get anything bigger than a 1/2" dado stack on it). And the fence needs to be manually squared each time its moved.

This table saw actually stalled out yesterday when i was cutting the hard maple. Just stopped. Hit the reset button resumed cutting and everything was fine.

The cutting board is end grain with alternating woods and widths. When i was cutting the hard maple, i had to take small pauses in the middle of each cut to get positioned correctly. The result was that the cuts had grooves in them from the saw blade. Well, i figured, i've got a jointer, i can just clean up those edges:

Fail #3:

My Jointer:


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Picked this baby up off of craigslist for $80 in December 2010. Guy told me that the blades were brand new. Didn't use it until yesterday, and got disastrous results. Here's an example of what happens:

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Snipe is redefined with this piece of machinery.

But i was relentless in my quest to push forward, so i kept going I glued up my cutting board (yes with bad joints. yes I know this is a cardinal sin. Yes, i've learned my lesson).

Fail #4 - Today, i came out to my glue up to trim up my edges, cut down the board, and re-glue for final cutting board awesomeness (OK, it wasn't going to be awesome, it was really just a trial run, work with me here). My table saw (please refer to fail #2) does not possess a table large enough to fit the 18" x 10" glued up monstrosity. Screw it, i've got a straight edge and a circular saw. Here is the result:

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I honestly thought i was going to start a fire.

So, aside from my venting, i actually have some questions that i hope you can help with:

1) What the heck is wrong with my jointer (yes it's rusty, yes i've cleaned it, no i can't keep it non-rusty). Do i need new knives? Do they need to be sharpened? Was i doing something completely amateurish?

2) Why is my table saw stalling out on hard maple? Is it that underpowered? Was I hoping for too much from a $50 table-saw?

3) Same question - circular saw? What kind of blade should I be using on it to cut this?

4) I've described what i've done somewhat thoroughly, any advice, pointers, guidelines, etc will be much appreciated. Mockery can be e-mailed to me directly @ suck.it.im.new.at.this@gmail.com

Thanks!

[Bill White]

Don't wanna sound like an elitist, but light duty stuff just won't cut it (boy, there is a pun fer ya). A better TS and jointer would be on the list of tools to buy.
Don't forget good blades for the TS, and well-aligned jointer tables are a MUST.
Bill

[George Gyulatyan]

2) Why is my table saw stalling out on hard maple? Is it that underpowered? Was I hoping for too much from a $50 table-saw?

Not surprised. I've stalled my 1 3/4 HP Jet Proshop when sawing 8/4 hard maple. The only advice I can give is make sure you go thin kerf and use low tooth count ripping blade.

[David Hawxhurst]

1. do a jointer tune-up. make sure the blades are all at the same height and the tables are aligned correctly. you'll need to learn this stuff sooner or later, so might as well start on something small that easy to work one.

2. stalls because its under powered for the material your trying to cut. also check to insure that your blade is sharp. my opinion is get rid of the table saw and get a 14" or bigger bandsaw. bandsaws can do everything a table saw can do expect no thru cuts in which cause use a router. bandsaws can also cut curves, veneers and re saw.

3. what kind of circular saw? mine (makita) has no problems cutting 2" material.

4. some sort of track saw that you can use a router with would also be something to consider to replace the table saw.

[steven c newman]

A good blade for the saw(s) would be a start. Jointer: not the knives fault, it is how they were installed by the last owner. Reset them according to the manual, should do better next time through.

Stalling on a tablesaw: Again, blade type? Rip blade is better at ripping to width, a crosscut is better at trimming the length. Pushing the board through to fast can also stall some saws, let the saw do it's job.

Circ. saw: Burning is because the blade is cutting at a "skew" to the cut line. Check the sawblade alignment to the base of the saw. You might find that the rear of the blade is at fault.

back to the Jointer; (yes, I have the same one in my shop) Take a look at HOW you move a board over the jointer. The pressure at the start of the cut, and at the end. Is the snipe at which end? Now, go back and try a second pass, adjusting the down pressure as needed. It needs to be consistant along the whole length of the board. Just like on a handplane, press down at the front to start the cut. As you go along, keep the pressure at a point just before the cutters. Finish up with everything on the outfeed side. takes some practice....

[Jerrimy Snook]

You definitely need a thin kerf rip blade (24 tooth maximum) on your saw to rip. The blade you have looks like an 80 tooth cross cut blade.

Looks like alignment on the jointer. Are the knives all set to the same height? Are the knives sharp?

The hand held saw is DULL! If it is a 7-1/4" saw you should be able to get a decent blade for $10-12 at the borg.

[Van Huskey]

Tune up or buy up either way you will be much better off. No story that includes a trip to the mecca of hardwood (Hearne's) is ever a complete fail. Keep the wood, you WILL use it!

[Clisby Clark]

I don't know what kind of blade you're using in that TS, but I STRONGLY suggest using a Freud Thin Kerf Rip in any portable TS. I use one in my Bosch. Buy two and get something to clean them with (do a search and pack a lunch!) and find a place locally that sharpens blades (ask a cabinet shop-they'll know). Good luck with the next project!

[Peter J Lee]

I reproduced some moldings I couldn't buy from 2x4 oak with a table saw that isn't all that different than yours. I think the key was getting a Diablo ripping blade from Home Depot for twenty some dollars.

[Mike Goetzke]

First I agree you need a thin kerf rip blade - I have successfully cut 8/4 maple with a circular saw on my track system. Now for the jointer. As I'm seeing it that edge looks way to short to pass across it safely- be careful!


Mike

[shane lyall]

One more? how deep a cut did you take on the jointer? With a small jointer like that you need to take thin passes. I have a benchtop Delta I used for years before I got my Powermatic aircraft carrier and it did fine as long as I took whisper thin passes in hard wood. After you have done a few pieces you'll know what you want to upgrade. I'm far from a tool snob but I had to learn the hard way that its much less stress to work with good tools.

[keith micinski]

Throw that jointer in the trash and get something that isn't going to be able to actually do work. I can't for the life of me figure out why that jointer was even made. A 10 inch table length? Absurd. All bench jointers are going to be hard to work with but that thing is ridiculous and not worth the time it takes to tune it up. I am not a tool snob either, I built some really nice stuff on a 1950 craftsman contractor saw and would suggest you also look into that. I see those things on Craigslist every single day for a 100 bucks. You are pushing the limits of being able to make furniture quality stuff with those tools, especially considering your lack of experience with wood working. I have found it also takes a lot of fun out of the woodworking when you are fighting garbage tools just to get a semi square semi accurate cut. Also I am assuming that photo of the snipe was taken after you crosscut that board into the smaller sections otherwise never try and joint a piece that short.

[keith micinski]

"I'm far from a tool snob but I had to learn the hard way that its much less stress to work with good tools."

I couldn't agree more with this.

[steven c newman]

I also have that 6-1/8" jointer. It will do all that I need it to do. The 10" length is the STOCK that was run over the jointer. Jointer (mine anyways) has a 1hp motor hanging off of it. IF the knives are set right (OP's is NOT) and a light cut is made, no problems. The tables on the jointer are a bit longer than 10", I do know that. Jointer was made by emerson, back in the day..


I'm not a tool snob, either. This jointer has been in use since the 70s....

[Duane Bledsoe]

I have a table saw like that, similar anyway, it's a basic Craftsman contractor's saw with a 1HP motor. I have to re-square my fence manually each time I move it too. It's actually fairly accurate, at only about 1/32 of and inch off if I just loosen it, move it right or left, and keep the front pressed into the saw's table top as I move it. But I'm after precision cuts (which may be more than I can expect from a saw like this, but anyway). So I use a metal ruler against the fence with the end of it squarely down against the side of the fence and them measure to a carbide tooth edge on the saw blade. Then once I have my number set in the front, I rotate the blade to the back and measure off the same tooth to the fence again and bump the fence to match the front. Usually only has to move a hair's width (exaggerated, but you know what I mean). Once this is done, I recheck the front again, and then the back again to make finally sure it has not moved and I have dead on precision.......and if all is good I lock it down and cut my board.

Of course none of this takes into account that I'm liable to wobble the board in the cut, have blade vibration, saw movement from a cheap stand it sits on, or me accidentally using the board as a lever during mid cut to apply pressure to the fence and torque it out of position (and consequently make harsh saw blade marks on the wood too), which can be easily done on a saw with a fence of this quality. I'm about to remedy some of these situations with a custom build for my table saw that I'm planning, but until then I just make due with my little saw, and in spite of all it's flaws, it does a decent job of cutting, especially on 4' and less long pieces. The key I think is using the right blade for the right cut.