A few pleasant surprises at Home Depot

[David Weaver]

Not that this is going to be a thread about how it's my favorite place to buy woodworking tools or anything, but..

Had to go to home depot to get some stuff for the house, and some spare hacksaw blades. I got stuck making an iron for a smoother bench plane that I came across for cheap. I have some 3/32nd O1 stuff and it's not going to get used for anything else.

Pleasant surprise #1 - next to the hacksaw blades were an entire line of construction chisels made by Buck Bros, and all were made in the USA. They're not the sort of thing that we'd buy for much shop work, but it's nice to see that after the stanley fat max chisels at lowes went from england to china. That was a nice surprise.

Pleasant surprise #2 - All of the high speed steel hacksaw blades are made in the US, Lenox or Buck Brothers. I usually buy the lenox blades (they get eaten up by tool steel quickly if you make more than a couple of things), but they are sold only in packs of 2 - which equates to the price not being that good. Hopefully the buck bros blades will be at least as good. They can be had more cheaply in general, but packs of 5 are available.

And the last pleasant surprise was one of the unexpected type - the #5 sized buck brothers bench plane iron that's on the rack is actually made in china, but it was only $2.99 and after busting my butt for an hour and a half with files a belt sander and a grinder to make an iron the day before, I figured I'd give it a shot just to see if it was passable. To my surprise, it seems to be properly hardened all the way to the end, and whether luck or not, it had a slight hollow in the back of the iron with even uniform mill marks covering the entire front face of the iron. It is certainly capable enough to do serious work, and it took not more than 5 minutes to lap the face and have it in use. So far, despite the unidentifiable gray blasted effect on the non-business side of the iron, it's a better iron than the old millers falls iron that it replaces in the plane I put it in. I think it's probably better than the one I made and hardened, too. I used it on cherry and beech so far, and no unexpected chipout, etc.

It would be a good choice for someone on a budget to have as a second iron, or for anyone to have as a beat-around iron (i.e., one you camber and sharpen on a belt sander).

I don't mind chinese made products that do like they're supposed to do, and cost what you'd expect (it costs at least twice as much for me to just get the steel to make the 3/32nd thick iron). It's refreshing compared to what some of the woodworking retailers are feeding us - poorly finished chinese made products that are priced nearly as high as US-made products. I might even buy a second one the next time I'm in there for an old transitional that I've had for eons and never refurbished. The old stanley and millers falls irons are perfectly capable of good work, but when they are pitted and I lap the pits out on a kanaban, they get kind of thin, and a lot of times the old ones are bent to begin with.

[Rick Fisher]

Buck Bro's at Home Depot..

Typically what Depot is after is the brand name.. they take on the line, quickly become the biggest customer and then push for lower and lower pricing, encouraging the supplier to go offshore.. Because they are after the brand name, its hard for the vendor to separate the offshore product from the domestic and the name slowly slides down hill..

Some MFG's resist and the relationship ends.. others realize they need their largest customer and submit..

[David Weaver]

I don't know how long those (chisels) have been there, but it's been a while. I don't know if I've ever checked their origin before. I think I may have seen China on them before, but I don't remember.

I also recall that How it's Made did a segment on chisels, and showed those chisels being made in north america, and the process was almost fully automated.

I have no idea who puts the buck brothers name on tools these days, or who the manufacturer in the US is, but maybe they're a little insulated from the made in china issue because of the automation. Or perhaps they had quality issues.

Whatever the reason, I'm glad to see it. Especially when we see stuff like taper saw files heading to mexico - and I can find a lot of use for the two sizes they have there, or did.

I don't know any of the following for sure, like anyone else, but I suspect that after going to lowes and home depot decades ago where they had good tools for good prices, they saturated the market, and the only way to grow earnings is to get more out of each store. I think their prices are pretty poor on most stuff, but I am a bargain shopper. Decades ago, the blue and orange borg had to get you away from the mom and pop hardware stores. Now, I don't know who they compete with. I wouldn't guess that most of the folks I see there order much off the internet - at least in terms of what they can buy from home depot.

Finding what is really a pretty decent plane iron for 2.99, though (at least the particular example I got)...that's the biggest surprise. I wish I would've found it before making one, I could've saved the trouble.

[Joe Fabbri]

Hey David,

It's good to hear those inexpensive plane blades aren't too bad. I've checked them out many times, wondering how they were at such a price. I figure that at that price, you can't really lose. I've even thought about using those as the basis for some molding plane irons, but maybe that's pushing it. For a homemade scrub plane, it would probably be good, though.

[David Weaver]

I would use unhardened known steel to make moulding plane irons.

You'll have a good idea of how to harden them in the back yard, or assurance if you send them away that a hardener will know what they are and how to harden them.

Plus, unhardened O1 precision ground stock isn't too too expensive, and you can cut it pretty easily with a good hacksaw. Hardened stuff can be a booger to deal with, even without resharpening it, especially if they decided to use an air hardening steel to make those irons.

The iron that I got (I keep saying that, because I have no idea how consistent they are) is easily the match of any of my stanley stock irons, i believe it's a bit thicker (though it is a mm or so narrower), and it didn't chip in use so far - which is, to me, a very important spec on an iron. Irons can be as hard as someone wants to make them, but if they chip, they are a waste of time for a user. A chipped iron will make an unfit surface off of a smoother, and on a non-smoother, microchips in some spots will indicate early failure of the edge in general (in terms of the edge getting to the point that you flat out can't use it).

If an iron doesn't chip and it is a tiny bit soft (those two things should go together with quality irons, anyway), then it should be proportionally easier to sharpen and grind, which is a fair trade for a user.

At any rate, a thick iron is preferable for a scrub, but for a wide cambered jack (which will do just as well on the face of a twisted rough board) the iron that I picked up is easily easily good enough for that.

If I had more initiative, I'd count strokes with it to see how it compares to a hock high carbon iron. I'd bet it would go 2/3rds of the number of strokes before failing and then sharpen easier.

[Jay Maiers]

I bought a couple of those 2.99 plane blades so I could practice my bench grinding techniques. I'll have to dig them out and put an edge on them; thanks for the tip!

[John Luke]

I used one of these Irons to replace the iron in my Miller's Falls Jack plane. I wanted a heavily cambered iron in this plane to hog off material quickly. I didn't want to put a camber on the Miller's Falls iron so I bought the Buck Brothers at Home Depot. Used it quite a bit flattening Walnut and Cherry. It's a pretty good iron.

[Joe Fabbri]

Yeah, I would probably just by untempered o1 to begin with like you say, David, but for a heavily cambered plane, it might be the way to go. In fact, I might be smoothing out some rough-cut log wood soon, and I will need a cheap blade to flatten it quickly.

[Jonathan McCullough]

I had a Jack plane with a seriously deteriorated iron, so I got one of those more out of curiosity than anything, and had the same experience.

I think the Buck Bros. chisels are still made in Massachusetts. There was a "How It's Made" episode that features their manufacturing process. My first set of chisels was a Buck Bros. set from Craftsman Studios, which is, as far as I can ascertain, the same steel you'd get at Home Depot, but with a more traditional-shaped ash handle with leather shock-absorbing washers. They have a nice feel in the hand, and the steel is actually very good--no complaints--and they're pretty much still my everyday go-to chisels. I keep the 2" chisel around on the bench at all times because it's a good utility chisel for all sorts of tasks, like chamfering an edge, marking things off, cutting twine. But they're not beveled right down to the back, and as such have large "lands" or wide sides, which I find objectionable for dovetail chisels, so I got another set.

The Buck Brothers brand is now owned by Great Neck Saw Manufacturing. I believe they still make their GN saws out on Long Island (also the subject of a "How It's Made" episode). They make saw sets too, for a reasonable price as I recall. Some of their other tools are made in China, like those remarkably handy orange $2.99 screwdriver sets, as well as the plane blades. If I were a plumber or tradesman I wouldn't think twice about getting those chisels.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I don't know how long those (chisels) have been there, but it's been a while. I don't know if I've ever checked their origin before. I think I may have seen China on them before, but I don't remember.

I also recall that How it's Made did a segment on chisels, and showed those chisels being made in north america, and the process was almost fully automated.

I have no idea who puts the buck brothers name on tools these days, or who the manufacturer in the US is, but maybe they're a little insulated from the made in china issue because of the automation. Or perhaps they had quality issues.

Whatever the reason, I'm glad to see it. Especially when we see stuff like taper saw files heading to mexico - and I can find a lot of use for the two sizes they have there, or did.

I don't know any of the following for sure, like anyone else, but I suspect that after going to lowes and home depot decades ago where they had good tools for good prices, they saturated the market, and the only way to grow earnings is to get more out of each store. I think their prices are pretty poor on most stuff, but I am a bargain shopper. Decades ago, the blue and orange borg had to get you away from the mom and pop hardware stores. Now, I don't know who they compete with. I wouldn't guess that most of the folks I see there order much off the internet - at least in terms of what they can buy from home depot.

Finding what is really a pretty decent plane iron for 2.99, though (at least the particular example I got)...that's the biggest surprise. I wish I would've found it before making one, I could've saved the trouble.

Dave,

About a year or so ago, out of curiosity I picked up a couple of "NOS" Buck chisels from Craftsmen Studio. Have a somewhat similar look to vintage Buck tang chisels (some of my favorite of vintage chisels), with the exception being a thicker ferrule. Steel is not bad, but huge flats on the sides, which I had one of my machinists grind to an almost point. Price was just a whisker above $10.00 each, and I would say they are comparable to Narex.

When at the Home Depot (we don't have one near DuBois), what did their selection of triangular (think saw) files look like? I hate online ordering because that $3.00 file ends up costing me $10.00+ with shipping!

T.Z.

[David Weaver]

Tony - they (home depot) have nicholson files in 6 slim taper and 6 xx-slim taper. Unfortunately, they're made in mexico now. They are passable, but they are not as good as the old ones, nor as good as the grobet non-swiss files.

I used to get my small files from mcmaster carr, because they were giving me grobet swiss files for about $4.x each (can't remember exactly), but I think the bigger ones I've gotten from them have been nicholson mexico, and they're in the ballpark of HD's prices.

I had the buck chisels from craftsman studio (the entire set). I thought they were pretty nice, with decent (not so much hard, but reasonably fine) steel, but like you said, they had big lands. I thought about grinding them down some, but I changed my mind and sold them on ebay when I realized I had a problem of excess, and someone bid them up to $145 (i refunded the overage vs. the craftsman studio price that I paid). I certainly could've lived with them as users if I didn't have such a piggish pile of chisels otherwise. They had big handles, but the handles weren't particularly heavy, so they didn't make them too unwieldy.

If I had to guess, I would say the crank neck parers I got from dieter schmid are also of buck origin. They look just like the buck chisels, but I can't remember what they say on them.

[Jim Rimmer]

I might even buy a second one the next time I'm in there.

You have gone on record that you want another so you'd better go get it tomorrow or they won't be there the next time you go in.

[daniel lane]

I bought a couple of those 2.99 plane blades so I could practice my bench grinding techniques.

Brilliant idea, Jay - I may have to go buy a couple for precisely that reason. Thanks for doing my thinking for me!


daniel

[David Weaver]

You have gone on record that you want another so you'd better go get it tomorrow or they won't be there the next time you go in.

I'll get a whack at them this evening. Home Depot is very close to my house.

[Dustin Keys]

Thanks for the heads up on these! I picked up two of them myself tonight. I wanted to try a cambered iron in my #5, but didn't want to commit to it by grinding my only iron. For $3 they're good for sharpening practice if nothing else. I suspect that they'll be useful for more than practice though.

D