Remote control dust collector unit

[Phil Thien]

I have the same remote as you, I use it with a 12 or 13-amp (I think) shop vac. I have been using it at least three or four years w/o problem.

Before replacing it, I'd get to the bottom of the problem. Right now, it seems to be the weak link. If you find a unit that can withstand whatever current you're throwing at it, well, maybe the wire in the wall will be the weak link. Maybe something will catch on fire.

I'd start w/ an ammeter on your DC.

[Lloyd Kerry]

i still don't know why anyone bothers with remotes when these guys are out there:

http://www.ivacswitch.com/index.action

the Pro series will handle 20A 220V,amd there is a contactor available for up to 10hp 3phase units. nothing like having the DC go on when the tool is activated. i use the ivac switch and am in the proces of daisy chaining them so a shop vac will automatically activate along with the DC for things like router tables, RASs and TSs with blade guard dust collection.

And they're Canadian (shameless patriotic plug) !

[Bob Landel]

Phil, Looks like the solution is to use a heavy duty relay or "contactor" between the DC and the remote control. At least this is the statement IVac uses to explain remote control failures when using 120 volt 1 1/2 hp dust collectors. (Read statements in Joe Fulkner's thread "110v, 115v. 120v - Electricians......" in the wookshop forum

Checked my DC's amps. It is running within spec.; after start up about 14.1 to 14.7amps.

Do not understand why people not reporting more failures on this site. The IVac statments make it seem well known.

[Phil Thien]

Phil, Looks like the solution is to use a heavy duty relay or "contactor" between the DC and the remote control. At least this is the statement IVac uses to explain remote control failures when using 120 volt 1 1/2 hp dust collectors. (Read statements in Joe Fulkner's thread "110v, 115v. 120v - Electricians......" in the wookshop forum

Checked my DC's amps. It is running within spec.; after start up about 14.1 to 14.7amps.

Do not understand why people not reporting more failures on this site. The IVac statments make it seem well known.

Good to know. Maybe the failure rate has something to do with how often the unit is cycled. The starting draw on the 1-1/2 horse motor is substantially more than my vac. So I imagine the running of the DC isn't the problem, it is the starting of the DC. So starting/stopping the DC quite often might lead to quicker failure of the smaller remotes?

[Alan Schaffter]

One problem with many of these little remote units (not the IVAC) is how they are rated. 15 Amps is not the same for all equipment- what I am saying is look closely at the ratings- 15 Amps resistive load (heater, lighting, hot plate, etc.) is not the same as 15 Amps inductive load (motor, transformer, etc.). If you look at most US manufactured switches, etc, you will see they have two ratings, one for inductive loads and one for resistive load. A switch rated for 15A resistive load many only be rated at 10A inductive load. A switch used with inductive loads must be able to handle blowback which is caused by a surge of voltage created by the collapsing magnetic field in an inductor. When switching inductive loads, the arcing and sparking which normally occurs and damages the switch contacts over time happens when the contacts make AND break. I suspect many of the cheap remotes are not rated or not properly rated for inductive loads.

[Dave Wagner]

Make sure all your connections (Plugs, sockets, etc..) are good and tight. Any slop or looseness will cause more current to be drawn and could arc the plugs, socket, etc...make sure the wire is the correct size for the current draw. Sounds like somethign in not rated correctly.

[Bob Landel]

Alan, no question the less expensive remotes are not able to handle the intial surge of 1 1/2 hp DC which in my case is 67 amps at startup. In addition, I cycle a lot.

I need to call IVac to learn if the heavy duty relay is really necessary. Dave Hintz suggested A-10 relay. I am not sure what it is and how to get it to work on 120v my system. Where to buy a A-10?

[Alan Schaffter]

Alan, no question the less expensive remotes are not able to handle the intial surge of 1 1/2 hp DC which in my case is 67 amps at startup. In addition, I cycle a lot.

I need to call IVac to learn if the heavy duty relay is really necessary. Dave Hintz suggested A-10 relay. I am not sure what it is and how to get it to work on 120v my system. Where to buy a A-10?

If you go to the MBright/IVAC website they explain it all pretty well. Basically for high load situations they use an I-Switch or IVAC to operate the contactor (coil only). The I-Switch or IVAC does the sensing, timing, and control functions, while the contactor controls power to the DC. This is essentially what I do and what others here have suggested- using a low cost remote switch to control the contactor, and let the contactor do the heavy lifting.

In my case, I have a low voltage (24V) control circuit that powers the contactor (a big honking relay designed to switch power to big loads)- powers the electromagnet coil that move the switch's 30A contacts. Contactors with 120V coils are commonly available too. The contactor switches the 220V power to the DC. I don't use IVACs and my setup is more complex since my system operates the blast gates and the DC, but the principle is still the same.

[glenn bradley]

Not clear which one you are using but I have been running one of these for amlost 7 years with absolutely no signs of heat or stress:
​http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...&filter=remote
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...0V-Remote.aspx

[Bob Landel]

Alan, earlier on this site Chris Tsutsui described a DIY which is a lower cost IVac contactor system. I still need to find out if the 40 amp contactor he used will work for my 115v-120v 15amp DC. The initial surge of my DC goes to 67 amps at startup and then settles to 14.2-14.7 amps. I want to make sure it won't burn out with the surge and my habit of cycling a lot.

I learned some things this week about startup amp surge, contactors/relays, and the lower end remotes offered by Rockler/Woodcraft.

It been fun detective work piecing together the information put out there by the guys. I'm not done yet, but now I have some answers and options

[Bob Landel]

Chris, now that I see the light concerning my problem, I understand better your DIY. It is certainly the least expensive way to go.

Do you think the contactor you used can handle a 120v volt surge to 67amps? My Delta 1 1/2 HP motor draws that much at startup?

You used your collector on a 220v 30 amp DC which probably draws a bit on startup. Have you checked the amps at startup?

Can I buy a beefier contactor, if necessary, and do you know the product/number?

Thanks for your help.

[Alan Schaffter]

Bob, I am running my very old (pre- "G0XXX" numbering system) 3 HP Grizzly DC blower motor on a 30 Amp contactor- no sweat. Remember, your DC is only drawing high starting current momentarily. Cycling your unit "a lot" may be a big part of your problem, see my note above about blowback.

Another thing- how much ducting, etc. do you have on the inlet to the blower when you start it? If nothing, or almost nothing at all, until you get around to connecting a hose to it, your DC may be drawing way too much current because you are making it work too hard pulling too much air. It is counter intuitive, but the blower works the most (motor draws most current) when it is wide open and has nothing at the inlet, and works least when the inlet is blocked or connected to a ducting system or machines.

Contactors are easy to find at reasonable price- retail and surplus. You might be able to get one with 30 amp contacts and a 110V coil for free from your local HVAC installer. When they pull old units, they rarely salvage stuff like that- it goes to the scrap dealer. Ebay is loaded with them - I got 579 hits using "30 amp contactor" as my search terms. The prices generally ranged from $8.00 to $30. You need to read the specs, a lot of HVAC contactors have 24V coils because they are designed to be operated by a low voltage thermostat. Here is a brand new one (30 amp*, 120VAC coil) for a "Buy it Now" price of $7.95. Use that with any cheap wireless remote e.g. $12 XMAS light remote, and you have a super-duty, very inexpensive DC remote for under $20!

* It has an LRA of 160 Amps!! LRA which stands for Lock Rotor Amps or "Locked rotor current," is commonly found on electric motor label information. Locked Rotor is the Stopped position or the OFF State of and electric motor. The Current or Amps in this case have to do with the amount of electrical energy required to start the motor. This required energy is much greater than the Full Load Amps or Running Amps because of the required energy needed to not only start the motor but provide this transfered power to the device attached to the motor to operate the designed work function. Depending on the type of motor, LR current can be anywhere from 3 to 8 times the normal running current, also called RLA, or running load amps.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_lo...#ixzz1kPdBswO9

[Bob Landel]

Alan, thanks. Lots of good information.

Amazon sells all I need at cheap enough pricing to make this project go for me.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

I have the 220v version. It has been running strong for quite some time. If the motor is seeing low voltage it will draw higher current. Are you using a long extension cord? Long/thin extension cords can cause significant voltage drops. So can bad connections.

Salem

[Joseph Tarantino]

Why have a remote ? If you have panel box in shop, and machines are on circuits independent of lights, just put current sensor and relay in panel box. Turn on machine, DC starts up, cut off and DC cuts off. I added a cube timer so my DC would run for 10 sec after machine cuts off to clear duct work. Total outlay (2001) less than $100. Idea originally came from FWW, Aug. 2000.

any chance for a few pics of the inside of your subpanel showing the set up you describe? you know, a picture being worth a thousand words.