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Thread: Converting DC to cyclone?

  1. #1
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    Question Converting DC to cyclone?

    I am considering converting my DC by adding a cyclone/trash can/first stage to the unit. I am doing a lot more fine sanding and finding the filter clogs up more than I would like, and a first stage would help with this.

    I have this model from Grizzly



    A secondary benefit is to raise the unit and make it more vertical so that I can get a little more floor space.

    Any thoughts? Is it even worth it, or should I just consider selling/getting a new DC? (which really isnt something I could justify).

    I don't mind dropping a few hundred for this modification.

    Thanks in advance.
    Grady - "Thelma, we found Dean's finger"
    Thelma - "Where is the rest of him?!"

  2. #2
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    I am seriously considering buying the Oneida super dust deputy, mounting my 1.5 hp blower over top of it, then either venting it directly outside or putting a pleated filter on it.... I think that will improve my dust collection considerably without having to invest in a cyclone. I would also move all my ducting to 5 or 6 inch as well. Gives me better dust collection with no divorce.
    Paul

  3. #3
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    I have a similar DC and got a Wynn filter and plan to build a Thien Seperator. Have you looked over his site?

  4. #4
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    I would try a Thein baffle before I started throwing money at it. I had one in my Jet 1100 and have 2 in my Jet 1880. It makes a uge difference.

  5. #5
    I am still pondering a similar move to what you've done and get a Dust Deputy for a common one stage DC
    My thought was to ditch the lower bag on the DC (why do you need that now?) and just have a shallow pan for fine dust that falls out, much like the Oneida cyclones do under the filters. Then you can ditch the hard L-pipe from the turbine to the filter and just bolt it direct. That should chop a good 2 feet off the height of the machine.

    the monkey in the wrench is the filter, itself. Grizzly does not sell a HEPA filter yet (they are supposedly coming out in a few weeks) and the Oneida HEPA upgrade is about $300 with shipping. I do not consider upgrading to a cyclone worth my time unless I do a HEPA filter, too. It's the superfines afterall, that kill you. The regular fines just make your snot a color matched wood filler for whatever species you're working with at the time.

    My plan right now is to wait it out and see what Grizzly has to offer in the coming weeks. Else, I'll probaby pick-up an Oneida V-Series cyclone for the shop.

  6. #6
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    I have already put in the thein baffle, and that helped significantly in regards to how full the bag can get before you get chips in the upper filter unit, but you still get the fine dust clogging up the upper unit.
    Grady - "Thelma, we found Dean's finger"
    Thelma - "Where is the rest of him?!"

  7. #7
    +1 on a Thien separator. It works very well for keeping the filters cleaner longer. It also makes chip cleanout easier than those clampy bags.

    I also submit to you that getting a Dust Deputy or MiniCV cyclone preseparator for your shop vac might be a better option for sanding. These mini cyclones do a marvelous separation job. The shorter hose and higher 'suction' of a shopvac is also very well suited for sanding; most sanders have a port that - if properly equipped - will catch almost all of your sanding dust at its source. It's also easier (IMHO) to move the sander with the skinnier shopvac hose than the bulky dc hose.

    Last, if you are sanding with a ROS, consider using Mirka Abranet. Because this product is an open mesh, it does a better job of letting dust thru to the dust port. I've used them a couple times and was pleased.

    And here's more info (and a stealth gloat) than you asked for: if you ever feel like spending stupid money on something, try the Mirka Ceros sander. It changed the way I look at sanding. In addition to being comfortable, quiet, and aggressive, it has extraordinary dust collection. I'm amazed how quickly ROS's and cordless drills reach the end of their working life with a hobbyist like myself. The Ceros is reported to have a much longer life.
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 12-27-2011 at 4:23 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by alex grams View Post
    I have already put in the thein baffle, and that helped significantly in regards to how full the bag can get before you get chips in the upper filter unit, but you still get the fine dust clogging up the upper unit.
    One thing you can do that will help a bit with fine sanding dust is add an outlet tube that extends 2" below the funnel of your DC. Some people have used PVC and made a donut. Others have found that cutting both ends off a coffee can has worked. You can just use tape to install it temporarily to see if it helps.

    If you're doing a ton of sanding (like using a drum sander) you're going to be taxing even a real cyclone. You will still have to clean your filter quite frequently.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex grams View Post
    Is it even worth it, or should I just consider selling/getting a new DC? (which really isnt something I could justify).
    First, I respectfully and strongly disagree with this statement. If I had not held off on better dust collection I would not have to wear a respirator for nearly everything (including hand sanding) for the rest of my woodworking days. You can TOTALLY justify almost ANY cost for better dust collection. Learn from my mistakes, there's no second chance.

    *** stepping off my well intended soapbox ***

    I totally agree that a separator would be a low cost and quick thing to test. If it puts too much of a hit on your air flow (and there will be a hit) I would then consider a cyclone. A lot of folks on here have had excellent success with separators. I bought a 2HP cyclone and wish I could've fit the 3HP into the shop. Another option for some is to put the DC out in a shed (my dad did this and his 2HP DC kick butt on my 2HP cyclone) or enclosure that borders the shop and then use a more open top bag. This will allow a lot of fines into the enclosure but, who cares. It will allow less restricted airflow, just wear a respirator when you go to change out the bin/bag.

    I have to vent back into my shop and as stated earlier, have already done damage to myself that makes my tolerance to dust very low. A cyclone with a quality filter does the trick and even after dozens of times emptying the bin, the filter is pretty clean. My filter has a built-in scrubber that is activated by a pair of cables/handles sort of like running a window shade up and down. I also run HEPA filters and Dust Deputy fixtures on my vacs (more money well spent). Spend some dough on your DC or spend it at the doctors; easy choice.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  10. #10
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    Alex, there is not any modification (that I know of) for a single stage DC that will keep the fines out of the filter. That's why people eventually end up with cyclones. I tried every imaginable alteration to my DC, but still had to clean the filter every time I used the drum sander.

    As I see it, there are three options. You can continue to clean your filter (not that bad, but annoying), you can buy a well designed cyclone (can be expensive), or you can vent outside without a filter (pretty cheap). I am currently venting outside. It works great and improves performance significantly. No filters to clean. In my experience so far, I haven't sucked poisonous gas into my shop, significantly changed the shop temperature or ended the world by venting outside. YMMV. If it weren't practical to vent outside for me, I would have bought a good cyclone.

    There have even been a few threads about making a hybrid system, where you can choose to either vent into a filter or outside.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by david brum View Post
    Alex, there is not any modification (that I know of) for a single stage DC that will keep the fines out of the filter. That's why people eventually end up with cyclones. I tried every imaginable alteration to my DC, but still had to clean the filter every time I used the drum sander.

    As I see it, there are three options. You can continue to clean your filter (not that bad, but annoying), you can buy a well designed cyclone (can be expensive), or you can vent outside without a filter (pretty cheap). I am currently venting outside. It works great and improves performance significantly. No filters to clean. In my experience so far, I haven't sucked poisonous gas into my shop, significantly changed the shop temperature or ended the world by venting outside. YMMV. If it weren't practical to vent outside for me, I would have bought a good cyclone.

    There have even been a few threads about making a hybrid system, where you can choose to either vent into a filter or outside.

    Ding, ding, ding. IF you can vent outside then by all means do it. It is the cheapest and most effective means of getting the fines away from your nose.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Huskey View Post
    Ding, ding, ding. IF you can vent outside then by all means do it. It is the cheapest and most effective means of getting the fines away from your nose.
    Or if you are living in a residential area, putting it up your neighbors nose. Dave

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Or if you are living in a residential area, putting it up your neighbors nose. Dave
    Yep the key word is IF. Actually, the amount of fines we produce in a hobby shop disperse pretty quickly in the open. I would be surprised if you could measure any significant increase in fines near ground level 50-100 feet from a hobby source. In a residential area the increased noise and possibly the larger particle "snow" would be more of an issue than the true fines.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  14. #14
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    A properly executed Thien separator approaches true cyclone performance, and in some ways, separates fines better than some low end cyclones. Google Thien Cyclone and check it out... WELL worth the effort. Of course if you have the $$, just go ahead and get a ClearVue in your shop... Those are just out of my budget for a while anyway. At least until next Christmas... (Working on paying some debt off...)

    I have to respectfully disagree with David Brum here, the Thien separator does a very good job of separating fines IF it is executed properly. I have had mine in place for 2 years, and have yet to have to clean my filter beyond blowing it down...
    Last edited by David Hostetler; 12-28-2011 at 2:44 PM.
    Trying to follow the example of the master...

  15. #15
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    I have to respectfully disagree with David Brum here, the Thien separator does a very good job of separating fines IF it is executed properly. I have had mine in place for 2 years, and have yet to have to clean my filter beyond blowing it down...
    David, I'd love some details. Are you using a drum sander?

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