A convert to waterstones

[daniel lane]

Hi, all -

Thought I'd share an experience today that absolutely opened my eyes and was about as thrilling as a woodworking experience can be (at least to me). Based on Archie's "gloat" thread on the Sigma Power ceramic stones, I did some research, talked to Stu, and bought a set of Sigma Power stones (400, 1000, 6000, 13000) to replace the 'scary sharp' method I'd been using. First off, many thanks to Archie for his thread - I'd been looking for an alternative, but didn't know enough. All of you that contributed to that thread helped immensely. Second, thanks to Stu for incredibly informative exchanges, and especially for the stones! Now, my coming out: I'm a waterstone user!

I was primarily a machinery user for years, and about a year ago made the decision to migrate to a neander mentality and process. Many reasons, but that's another thread. However, the scary sharp system which had worked for me in the past was quickly wearing on me - far too many blades to sharpen, and far too expensive to deal with! The move to the Sigmas has been astounding - I can't believe how fast the Sigmas worked, and although my first chisel is not something I care to photograph and share, it took far less time to look as it does than it used to take!

In all seriousness, I know I have more to learn, but these stones are amazing. It took a little time to flatten them for first use, and I took so much time with them the chisel actually started to rust, but I learned a bunch and I've got a great set of stones. My biggest issues with them is that as the back of the chisel flattened out, I found it hard to move the chisel without moving the stones...the surface tension ('suction') was great enough to pose some difficulties. I also need to learn how long to go before rinsing the swarf, I think I erred FAR on the side of caution and rinsed the stones every 10 strokes. My fingertips are not bleeding, but my fingerprints are definitely shallower, and I have a scary sharp (pardon the phrase) chisel and can't wait to have more.

On top of this coming out, I figure I need to ask a question - is there a good video that is recommended for new waterstone users? I learn far better by watching than by reading, and I'm convinced I don't have this down right. Alternately, anyone in the central CA area want to offer to show me the right way to use these things? I'd hate to screw them up from ignorance...


daniel

[Tom Blank]

Here's one on chisels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aDPZ...ure=plpp_video

The parent site:

http://www.youtube.com/user/LieNiels...?feature=watch

[Jack Curtis]

.. is there a good video that is recommended for new waterstone users? I learn far better by watching than by reading, and I'm convinced I don't have this down right. Alternately, anyone in the central CA area want to offer to show me the right way to use these things? I'd hate to screw them up from ignorance...

Have you watched Stu's videos?

[Ryan Mooney]

I took so much time with them the chisel actually started to rust,

Consider acquiring some no-rust water additive. I've been happily using "honerite gold" which magically turns water into a rust inhibitor (available from leevalley, toolsforworkingwood, woodcraft, etc...) - but have no experience with any competitors (are there any? curious..?).

but I learned a bunch and I've got a great set of stones. My biggest issues with them is that as the back of the chisel flattened out, I found it hard to move the chisel without moving the stones...the surface tension ('suction') was great enough to pose some difficulties.

Assuming you don't have them... some water stone holders or a pond with a built in holder will help keep the stone steady. Having used with and without I consider some sort of a holder pretty much a requirement now from a ease of use standpoint. You could pretty easily make something to set the stone in with a rubber pad under it to get ~most of the same effect I believe (although I punted and bought some of the clamping rubber stone holders like Stuart sells and couldn't be happier). If you have those and are still getting suction issues... well - curious what others suggest in that case

My fingertips are not bleeding, but my fingerprints are definitely shallower, and I have a scary sharp (pardon the phrase) chisel and can't wait to have more.

heh, when I first started using the sigmas I let my one finger float a little.. too... close.. to the stone and was like "hey where is all that blood coming from?!!?!" - they remove skin even faster than steel for sure, polished the end of the finger off right through into the meaty bits in about 5 strokes without even feeling it (and that was on a 10k stone! )

[Archie England]

Congrats congrats!!!!

Highland woodworking has about the best price on stone holders ($14). They're in Atlanta, GA, but will ship--meaning get more than one. I've got four--one for my iWood and three to rotate with the stones. That works really well. I was happy with only two for stone rotation, but the third has actually made switching easier.

Keep spritzing a little water to keep the paste moist to wet. Also, you don't have to flatten 100% of the back, just the final 1/8 to 1/4" will suffice--and you should never have stiction issues then. Oh, and congrats on freehanding. Have you tried side grinding the bevels yet--running the blade bevel vertically rather than horizontally?

Glad to hear your "GLOAT"

[Jim Koepke]

If you have those and are still getting suction issues... well - curious what others suggest in that case

My thought was when the blade and stone stick together is that it is time to flip the blade over, this side is done.

Though that is not always the case. My LN 62 blade has such a wide bevel that it will stick on the bevel with a freshly flattened stone.

jtk

[Jerome Hanby]

Not sure what I'm missing. I'm on the toolsfromjapan.com site and I can see the special set that includes the 400,1000,6000,and 13000 grit stones and I can see the price in yen, but I can't see where the site will let me order the set. It has a quantity field for other products, but not that one... Doe that mean it's no in stock? Do i have to contact them to order that set?

[Archie England]

Not sure what I'm missing. I'm on the toolsfromjapan.com site and I can see the special set that includes the 400,1000,6000,and 13000 grit stones and I can see the price in yen, but I can't see where the site will let me order the set. It has a quantity field for other products, but not that one... Doe that mean it's no in stock? Do i have to contact them to order that set?

You'll need to "log in" by creating your account. Next, there's a conversion dialog box about 1/2 down the page: choose your currency. Then when you order, you wait for Stu to send you an invoice with the "actual" shipping. He'll instruct you from there.

Hope this helps,

Archie

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

careful with how you're holding the blade and how you deal with the suction on the surface - it's easy to cut yourself if you try and force things.

[Jerome Hanby]

Sure does, thanks!. I found the currency conversion, just the missing quantity was throwing me. I'll make an account and see what changes. Thanks!

You'll need to "log in" by creating your account. Next, there's a conversion dialog box about 1/2 down the page: choose your currency. Then when you order, you wait for Stu to send you an invoice with the "actual" shipping. He'll instruct you from there.

Hope this helps,

Archie

[daniel lane]

Thanks for the comments, all. Some answers and comments, somewhat in order:

1. Um, no...I need to watch Stu's videos, thanks for the reminder!
2. I have a tray with two rubber stone holders, but the tray kept sliding! I have some of the LV high friction sheet (you know, their bench puck stuff) and I'll be putting some of that on the tray to help. That said, most of my problem was from stiction (thanks for the word) and that was in great part because I was flattening a lot of the back of a wide chisel. I know I can just flatten the end, but, well, I wanted to do as much of the back as I could.
3. Haven't tried side grinding, but may do so. I have the LV honing guide and can see where I will want to use it for a lot of initial (with the new setup) honing, but I may try to teach myself freehanding. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be, and it's a heck of a lot faster to not have to set everything up!
4. Finally, thanks for the warning on the care while dealing with stiction. I'm paranoid about that kind of stuff, so I'd already considered it, but I've been around long enough to appreciate repeated reminders about safety considerations. I'm hoping that once I finish flattening backs on my new blades (I have several that I held off dealing with until the new stones showed up), stiction will be an infrequent issue.

Thanks again, all, and hope I'm not too loud as I slide down this slippery slope!



daniel

[Archie England]

Like that little pig, going "wheeeee" all the way home--this stuff is fun.

Honestly, I never sharpened as regularly or kept my tools as sharp until I started fee-handing! Now I keep a perma-soakers out, knowing that in the few minutes to start there, my other stone will be soaked enough to work--and I have an unheated garage shop (albeit in the deep south). But chilly and cold water don't go well, either.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

My shop is inside; so no issue with freezing, but we also don't keep it very warm in the house in the winter (1800's building that has never had much insulation put in and is kind of drafty means high heating bills.)

For some reason, I always sharpened with cold water. Probably because that's how the water starts coming out of the tap, and I never let it run long enough to warm up, and the spray bottle I keep handy is cold from hanging around in a slightly chilly house. For some reason it never occurred to me to use warm water, until the other day when I did the dishes before sharpening, so the water was ready and warm.

Sharpening is a lot more enjoyable now. A little difference in temperature makes a big difference in the work. I can't believe I never thought of it before . . .

I'm with Archie too - learning to freehand is pretty great. I probably won't be selling my jigs anytime soon, but I haven't pulled them out in a long time, either. It makes everything quicker, so I'm more apt to sharpen, which makes it even quicker still. It's kind of fun now, too.

[Chris Griggs]

I'm with Archie too - learning to freehand is pretty great. I probably won't be selling my jigs anytime soon, but I haven't pulled them out in a long time, either. It makes everything quicker, so I'm more apt to sharpen, which makes it even quicker still. It's kind of fun now, too.

I'm not sure how much faster I sharpen freehand (if at all), but I do hone more frequently since I learned to freehand because it feels like so much less of a chore and dare say its enjoyable even. Its not that I want to sharpen all the time now (not that there's anything wrong with that), but there is a certain satisfaction I get when I hone a really good edge freehand. I sold my MKII pretty quickly after I learned to freehand, but I still do have a little eclipse stashed away for those bad days when I just can't freehand good edge. Thankfully those days are becoming fewer and farther between. FWIW, I don't think anyone NEEDS to learn to freehand, but for anyone whose been inclined to try it, its definitely worth learning and easier than you think (most days).

[Stuart Tierney]

Sure does, thanks!. I found the currency conversion, just the missing quantity was throwing me. I'll make an account and see what changes. Thanks!

Because there are options on those sets, you can't just randomly throw one in the cart, you need to get in there and choose exactly what you want.

It's only like that because while the basics are very good, it's nice to have options and for some folks who've already got something they're pleased with, then switching that little bit for something different is a good thing.

That said, 90% of folks just take the default options. Fortunately, the default is what most folks want.


BTW, I'll be incommunicado for about a week, or a reasonable facsimile of it, so if I don't get back to you it's because I'm in Australia.

(Grandpa passed away on Sunday.)

Stu.