Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: Back Saw Build

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,426
    Blog Entries
    1

    Back Saw Build

    This is my second time at cutting all new teeth and my first at making a handle for a saw. The teeth are at 13 ppi, 5º rake and 5º fleam.

    In all of the old junk that comes my way was an old Disston backsaw plate. It was in fairly bad shape, but that never stopped me before. Over the last few years I have spent some time cleaning it up when the mood came over me. Even with all the sanding and such there is still a bit of pitting.

    Other projects and circumstance kept it on one of my many back burners until now.

    Another unrelated incident also came into play...

    About 3 years ago a neighbor had an apple tree come down in a storm. Lucky for me I found out about it before he burned it all. He actually made me feel like I was helping him out by hauling it away for him.

    Now some of the smaller pieces are dry enough to use.

    Apple Wood.jpg

    This wood actually got me to put a camber on a blade for my #5-1/4 plane to use it as a scrub plane.

    The bottom piece is the one used to lay out a saw handle. It was cut and the piece on the left is a piece of scrap that will be sure to find some use.

    My template was from the Gramercy Dovetail Saw Kit instructions. First a handle was made to the drawing in pine to see how it would fit my hand. Notes were made on the drawing and things set aside until recently.

    The limb this was riven from wasn't big enough to get the grain to my desire, but what the heck, it was fun anyway.

    The blank was marked and drilled, cut with a bandsaw and the work began.

    Back Saw Handle Rough.jpg

    The pictures don't show it, but there were remnants of bark on both sides of this piece. After the starting shape was cut out, the rasps, chisels and gouges had their turn at it.

    Shaping Saw Handle.jpg

    To cut the kerf in the handle one method is to use the saw plate without set to cut into the handle. The back could have been removed, but instead my plan was to use the support for a depth gauge so a groove was plowed into the support to hold the back of the saw plate.

    Saw Blade Rabbet.jpg

    Some test cuts were made. The saw plate was watched to make sure it wasn't flexing to indicate it wasn't parallel to the bench top. A shallow kerf was also cut in the test piece to check the tracking. Good thing as the blade was at a slight angle. A piece of blade is in the final test to show how the blade tracked after using a couple layers of tape to adjust the angle.

    Cut After Adjustment.jpg

    Cutting the actual handle went well. Note the gloves, these are to protect my hands while cutting. Only a little blood was spilled on the handle and that was during the planing. My pinky finger was over the edge of a plane and got nicked by one of the horns. Ouch!

    Handle Cut.jpg

    Once the kerf for the blade was finished the blade was put in place and used to mark the mortise needed for the back. This was sawn and then cut out with chisels. It was my intention to have the back slightly above the wood and the blade flush. That still put the tooth line below the horns.

    Even with all the care of marking out the bolt holes I managed to goof up.

    Off Center, Oops!.jpg

    Another thing I learned is it is easier to set the teeth on a saw like this without the handle. The saw set was set to just about the minimum, but next time I will aim for even less.

    Once it all came together though it cuts and tracks quite well without having to stone the teeth at all. There is a little bit of line left at the end of the angled cut. If I am going to split a line, a fatter pencil is in order.

    Tracking The Line.jpg

    One of the things I like in my handles is a place for the finger tips to rest. There is a notch running up the side of the handle. This handle is also a touch fatter than an inch. Fits my hand just they way I like it.

    The handle is finished with an oil and wax mixture. I was thinking of giving it a coat of shellac but I like the feel of bare wood.

    Even with all the little mistakes, I guess I will have to get some fresh steel and try another.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Mebane NC
    Posts
    1,018
    That's fun isn't it, Jim? You made good use if the apple. A comfortable handle makes a tool more pleasurable to use. I've only made 1 backsaw (so far), but it was fun and I enjoy using it even with the small goofs. I'm sure you will enjoy using yours. Paul

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Suffolk County, Long Island NY
    Posts
    1,150
    Jim,

    Makes me want to make a handle! although I don't have any wood as nice as the chunks of colorful apple you have there.

    Pete

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    3,697
    Nice Jim, thanks for sharing. I like your finger tip slot, its a neat idea that I may have to try sometime.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Milton, GA
    Posts
    3,213
    Blog Entries
    1
    Jim, very nice work! I am about to thin my orchard before spring. I am hoping I will have a little apple to store.

    I am curious how you like the combo filing? The Gramercy Sash saw, 5 rip- 7 fleam, is very similar.

  6. #6
    Ahh...there is nothing quite like the satisfaction of making your own tools, and there is not much wood that is nicer than apple for working handles.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,426
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    Jim, very nice work! I am about to thin my orchard before spring. I am hoping I will have a little apple to store.

    I am curious how you like the combo filing? The Gramercy Sash saw, 5 rip- 7 fleam, is very similar.
    It was the thread on the combo filing that swayed my thinking into trying it out.

    That was my motivation for making the fleam guage.

    So far it seems to cut very well on rip cuts. It is a bit rough on the crosscuts. One thing I do like on the rip cuts is it seems to leave a smoother cut on the back side of the work piece.

    A freshly sharpened saw always seems to cut well, but this one seems a bit more aggressive than previous saws of my sharpening with this high of ppi. It could be the rake is also bit steeper than on any of my previous saws.

    Makes me want to get some blank saw plates and try some different combinations to see how different combinations perform.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    Ahh...there is nothing quite like the satisfaction of making your own tools, and there is not much wood that is nicer than apple for working handles.
    I was surprised at how easy the apple was to shape. No wonder it was used so much in the past.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Carlsbad, CA
    Posts
    2,229
    Blog Entries
    2
    Jim, thanks for sharing the pictures of your saw builds and congratulations - it looks like it turned out great! I really like the proportions of all the elements and the nice patina on the old Disston saw back.

    Could you describe it a bit more detail how you use the "depth gauge" to cut the kerf for the blade? This always gives me trouble and I think is one of most important elements in ending up with a nice straight plate and a saw that really tracks a straight line. It seems like you came up with a creative solution that worked well.

    Again, congratulations on beautiful tool that I'm sure you will enjoy using!

    Mike

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,426
    Blog Entries
    1
    Could you describe it a bit more detail how you use the "depth gauge" to cut the kerf for the blade?
    I had to think on this a touch. The groove plowed into the blade support was positioned so when the front of the handle hit its edge, the kerf would be at the correct depth for where the end of the blade was to be. The blade support was re-sawn and planed to thickness to position the blade's center at a height half the thickness of the handle. Then a thin piece was carefully cut to watch for any blade flexing. This checks the parallelism of the blade from end to end. Then a cut is made in the long side of a test piece to check the next step. A deeper cut is made to check the tracking to make sure it is parallel tooth line to back.

    Of course if an error is found at any point it needs to be corrected before the next step.

    Here is a picture of the handle at the end of the cutting.

    Back Saw Tote.jpg

    The blue tape under the saw blade was to adjust the saw into parallel with the bench top.

    It was easy to mark a line on the handle with the blade inserted to then mark the holes.

    Of course the mortise for the back has to be cut first before being able to transfer the holes from the plate to the handle. If one were making one with a plate that didn't already have holes, then it would be a bit easier.

    Again, congratulations on beautiful tool that I'm sure you will enjoy using!
    Thanks and yes, it was a joy to use it today. So far it seems to track and cut very well.

    I think my next rip sharpening will have some fleam added.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 01-31-2012 at 4:00 AM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,534
    Nice work Jim. You will find 2nd time round so much easier. Well done JTK.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,441
    I really enjoyed your post, thanks!

    What hang angle did you use?

    Do you find the saw comfortable and easy to use to saw?

    I think that the handle is lower than I am used to seeing, but I do not have a lot of experience evaluating them.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,426
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Pitonyak View Post
    I really enjoyed your post, thanks!

    What hang angle did you use?

    Do you find the saw comfortable and easy to use to saw?

    I think that the handle is lower than I am used to seeing, but I do not have a lot of experience evaluating them.
    Andrew, Glad you enjoyed the post.

    Oops! Didn't know there was going to be a test. My prototype handle was not only used to adjust the size, but it was also used to determine where my hand felt comfortable doing saw motions while keeping the lower horns from contacting the top of the work while sawing. My recollection of this is a thin piece of scrap was attached to the prototype handle and moved about to find my comfort zone.

    At one time there was such a heated discussion on how to measure hang angles, I am not sure how to measure hang angle. It really doesn't matter to me as if the saw is comfortable to use, then it doesn't matter to me.

    The saw is used quite often and is very comfortable in use. Over the years an occasional "adjustment" has been made with a rasp and sandpaper to better fit my grip.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Enchanted land of beer, cheese & brats
    Posts
    1,314
    Nice work Jim! Thanks for posting
    I got cash in my pocket. I got desire in my heart....

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,441
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    At one time there was such a heated discussion on how to measure hang angles, I am not sure how to measure hang angle. It really doesn't matter to me as if the saw is comfortable to use, then it doesn't matter to me.

    The saw is used quite often and is very comfortable in use. Over the years an occasional "adjustment" has been made with a rasp and sandpaper to better fit my grip.
    It amuses me that there was a heated discussion on how to measure the hang angle.... I would assume that the important thing about measuring it would be consistency if you are doing real comparisons to something.

    My primary interest in hang angles is related to my limited understanding that changing the hang angle adjusts how forces are applied possibly make it:


    • easier or more difficult to start
    • faster or slower to cut
    • and other things are are likely very important


    I expect that you can adjust to what ever you want to adjust to, but, at least for handgun shooters, changing an angle can really mess with your precision until you adjust.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,534

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •