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Thread: 12/2 or 10/2 -- 220 general purpose outlets

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael W. Clark View Post
    Dan,we should all take personal responsibility for our safety.

    If you don't know that a 2-pole breaker has two hot wires, then you probably should go learn more about it before messing with it. Codes and wire colors do not take the place of checking voltage, understanding the circuit, and the equipment you are working on.
    We should take responsibility for others safety, too, when it comes from doing what code specifies. Here's a situation I can easily imagine happening. Someone does not need a 240V outlet where it currently resides, and the outlet looks ugly... so they disconnect the outlet, cap the line, and place a blank plate over the box. Next guy comes along, opens up the box and sees a white/black pair... hey 120V, perfect! He hooks the lines up to a 120V outlet and things go badly (and I've seen plenty of electricians rewire boxes without ever touching the breaker). With no black tape on the white wire, why would someone suspect it's anything other than 120V? It's just a bad situation waiting to happen, and it can be mitigated by a few wraps of tape.

    You say you weren't being lazy, and the extra marking work shows you wanted to go above and beyond... but like Van, I have to wonder why you would spend more energy making something not to code when it would have been easier/faster to do it as expected/required. Laziness (to me) means doing less than what's required.

    Okay, I'll stop beating a dead horse, I just wanted to pass along an instance where I believed real harm could come to at least some equipment, if not a human.
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  2. #32
    please note that if you use a white insulated wire as a "hot" you must reidentify it (typically either black or red) on BOTH ends

  3. #33
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    Ill add the tape.
    In the example above, rewiring the outlet safely requires turning off the power to it, a 220v 2-pole breaker. All I'm sayin'.

  4. #34
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    Sometimes I tape the white (hot) wire, but usually I color the white wire with a black or red permanent marker, often easier especially if things get tight or everything is already wire nutted together.

    All of my 240 circuits in the shop are 12-2 WG. All are 3 hp or less and are on 20 amp 2 pole breakers. 12 ga is bad enough to work with, 10 ga is a bear and it is SO nice when you get to work with 14 ga wire on a 15 amp circuit. The copper is nice and flexy.

  5. #35
    Rod, that does seem the most efficient in terms of wire. But then the 110v circuits are not GFCI. I don't really know the code but I thought GFCI was required in most locations.
    Salem

  6. #36
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    Bob,
    Salem brings up a good point. You may have to add a GFCI outlet(s). You need GFCI outlets within proximity of water (I think there is a specific distance, others on here may know this off the top of their head), also if your space is "unfinished", you will need at least one GFCI outlet. If you have a bathroom, it needs its own 20A GFCI circuit.

    There are other rules regarding when/where/why a GFCI outlet is required. May want to check with an electrician/inspector to get the proper info. If you pull a permit, the inspector will be more than happy to help you. (At least that's my experience.) If you don't pull a permit, and you talk to the inspector, they may be more than happy to tell you that you need a permit.

    I hired an electrician for a couple of hours to help me layout the circuits and review my plans (I was finishing the basement and incorporating a workshop in it). You may have the experience and not need to do this, but it was well worth the money for me.

    Mike

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Anderson View Post
    .....I color the white wire with a black or red permanent marker....
    Bingo. Red marker every time. Easy, fast, no tape to dry and fall off, and everyone down the road will know what's what.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael W. Clark View Post
    .....If you don't pull a permit, and you talk to the inspector, they may be more than happy to tell you that you need a permit....
    NOT my experience. The inspector was quite happy to talk to me about what they wanted to see, long before he knew who I was and weeks before I opened the permit I did the work under. Don't be afraid of the inspector. I'd wager 90% of them are "regular guys".

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Angrisani View Post
    NOT my experience. The inspector was quite happy to talk to me about what they wanted to see, long before he knew who I was and weeks before I opened the permit I did the work under. Don't be afraid of the inspector. I'd wager 90% of them are "regular guys".
    Good to know, the ones I delt with when finishing out my basement were like you say. Very helpful and willing to answer questions. I bet I talked to the plumbing inspector 6 times or more before he came to look at my work. However, I already had the permit pulled.

    I think I'll use the marker on my wires as well. Like you said, no tape to fall off.

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